Extra Credits - Sinking the Bismark

[grandad1982]

Extra Credits just finished a 4 part series about the sinking of the Bismark if anyone is interested.

Link is here.

It would be nice if there was some way of capturing that sense of danger of lone raiders and the excitement of the chase in game.

 

[safe-keeper]

Greatly enjoyed that series .

And yes, if I ever experience something like that in 4, it'll be incredibly fun.

 

[grandad1982]

I like the time, date and position info of each section, felt it really helped convey the drama of the chase.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Well, we are trying! Talk to axe, it's something that has been tossed around as how to make commerce warfare interesting and dynamic. Re-working the doctrines, looking at the kit and the capability of platforms, even having a national unity hit if a big 'propaganda' vessel goes down, or the RN fails to find and sink a raider (Nelson would turn in his grave etc).

Certainly, operations like the Bismarck, like operation 'Berlin', like the Germans having Graf Spee and Deutschland at large when the war started and having Anglo-French hunting groups all over the place. To me these are far more exciting prospects than another tedious time grinding away before Kharkov...

K

 

[Meglok]

lol, just watched the 1960 movie Sink the Bismarck! last night when I couldn't sleep.

 

[Khevenhuller]

lol, just watched the 1960 movie Sink the Bismarck! last night when I couldn't sleep.

With dear old rightwing nutjob Kenneth More burbling away? Next you will be watching battle of the River Plate with Anthony Quayle. I think a better film, Powell & Pressburger after all...Then again Gilbert has a really weird filmography.

K

 

[Meglok]

Well, we are trying! Talk to axe, it's something that has been tossed around as how to make commerce warfare interesting and dynamic. Re-working the doctrines, looking at the kit and the capability of platforms, even having a national unity hit if a big 'propaganda' vessel goes down, or the RN fails to find and sink a raider (Nelson would turn in his grave etc).

Certainly, operations like the Bismarck, like operation 'Berlin', like the Germans having Graf Spee and Deutschland at large when the war started and having Anglo-French hunting groups all over the place. To me these are far more exciting prospects than another tedious time grinding away before Kharkov...

K

If PDS confirms 1.5 is about naval revamp and if it is more than just ui upgrades then by all means let's have a discussion on how to improve commerce raiding in general. Raiders get nice bonuses in their doctrine tree, but they come so late they are offset by detection improvements in ship classes and doctrines.

I remember a "pride of the fleet" nu hit in HOI3. There is no way I would want that now with how bad the naval combat is in HOI4. The ai would have to be much better about withdrawing and avoiding combat when it should instead of dying to the last ship and staying out with 2% health.

With dear old rightwing nutjob Kenneth More burbling away? Next you will be watching battle of the River Plate with Anthony Quayle. I think a better film, Powell & Pressburger after all...Then again Gilbert has a really weird filmography.

K

Actually it was "Unconquered" with Gary Cooper and Paulette Goddard, a CdM film. Really couldn't sleep last night.

 

[Stug_Life]

Out of curiosity does the game start with the British having the Prince of Wales or HMS Hood? Additionally is Bismark in the game and if so where do I locate them?

 

[Khevenhuller]

If PDS confirms 1.5 is about naval revamp and if it is more than just ui upgrades then by all means let's have a discussion on how to improve commerce raiding in general. Raiders get nice bonuses in their doctrine tree, but they come so late they are offset by detection improvements in ship classes and doctrines.

I remember a "pride of the fleet" nu hit in HOI3. There is no way I would want that now with how bad the naval combat is in HOI4. The ai would have to be much better about withdrawing and avoiding combat when it should instead of dying to the last ship and staying out with 2% health.




Actually it was "Unconquered" with Gary Cooper and Paulette Goddard, a CdM film. Really couldn't sleep last night.

Oh God no. I mean it would have to be very finely balanced otherwise the German government could collapse overnight - or given the pace of current naval engagements - in a week or so...

You really have to start with the doctrines and platforms, are both are a mess. I doubt very much PDX will revamp either. I hope that they do some positive things that are not 'moddable', like ship upgrades. Ships start in dock being upgraded in 1936, or should do, and one of the choices as a player is do you put further ships in for a major rebuild if war is on the horizon? If you play Germany and things are going well, why not stick Scharnhorst and Gniesenau in for the 15" turrets they were intended to have? Naval air is a shambles, developing new skills and technology (a carrier if you have never operated one, likewise for submarines) is even worse. Damaged ships seem to move at the same speed irrespective of damage levels, then there is sea state, weather, night actions...sigh. I could start on amphibious operations but I have not got all afternoon to write it, and I am certain no-one would have the stamina to read it.

Tactically a poster suggested an engagement button which allows a player to set what he will and will not engage: so operation Berlin with the Germans not engaging 15" gun ships is feasible, or close, by telling your fleet not to engage capital ships. That links to damage slowing you down on the map, making you more vulnerable to interception and so on...

K

 

[safe-keeper]

Out of curiosity does the game start with the British having the Prince of Wales or HMS Hood? Additionally is Bismark in the game and if so where do I locate them?

I seem to recall you have to build, perhaps even research, the Bismarck, but I could be wrong.

 

[Khevenhuller]

I seem to recall you have to build, perhaps even research, the Bismarck, but I could be wrong.

You have to research the KGV class and Bismarck class. You start with Hood, as she was already on the slips in 1916.

K

 

[safe-keeper]

I remember a "pride of the fleet" nu hit in HOI3. There is no way I would want that now with how bad the naval combat is in HOI4. The ai would have to be much better about withdrawing and avoiding combat when it should instead of dying to the last ship and staying out with 2% health.

Would love to see more of this in general, with NU and other stats being affected by, among other things, winning or losing naval battles or sinking "propaganda ships".

Kinda like in X-Com, where your funding from various countries depends on your performance.

 

[grandad1982]

As one series finishes another begins.

They are now starting a series about D-Day.

Link is here.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Would love to see more of this in general, with NU and other stats being affected by, among other things, winning or losing naval battles or sinking "propaganda ships".

Kinda like in X-Com, where your funding from various countries depends on your performance.

Well, for the Germans you could do that, but I think for the RN you would be more concerned about the propaganda effect of anything being out in the Atlantic at all: efforts to sink raiders were often far in excess of the damage they could really do. The real issue for the RN in terms of public relations was not losing ships, the British public seemed to have accepted that as part of being a naval power. The flip side was they expected to be THE naval power and the political pressure on the RN was to sink the Germans. I do not think that they would have taken much prodding. After all, the statement 'The Royal Navy will attack the enemy whenever and wherever he may be found' is drummed into you at Dartmouth even now. But for a HOI4 player, they may be willing to overlook this and just sacrifice convoys.

K

 

[grandad1982]

Part two of the DDay extra history is up. Here.

If you can have espionage even slightly as cool as the stuff in the video in HoI4 that would be really good.

Also if continental invasions could get some love too.....

 

[Khevenhuller]

Part two of the DDay extra history is up. Here.

If you can have espionage even slightly as cool as the stuff in the video in HoI4 that would be really good.

Also if continental invasions could get some love too.....

I want inflatable tanks...

K

 

[Corner79]

I want inflatable tanks...

K

And to add to that request K, i also want 'Mulberries' in the secret weapons.

Yes the Bismarck you have to build in game but why is it a 1940 battleship and not a SHBB in the tech tree?

I always wondered that

 

[Katsuki126]

And to add to that request K, i also want 'Mulberries' in the secret weapons.

Yes the Bismarck you have to build in game but why is it a 1940 battleship and not a SHBB in the tech tree?

I always wondered that

Because it was nowhere near a SHBB (which is a poorly defined class btw, only Yamato class fit in it).
Mind that the Bismarck was a pretty ship on paper, but proved to be badly designed (wrong deck placement, unprotected critical part and so on)

With dear old rightwing nutjob Kenneth More burbling away? Next you will be watching battle of the River Plate with Anthony Quayle. I think a better film, Powell & Pressburger after all...Then again Gilbert has a really weird filmography.

K

But... But... The battle of the River Plate is the movie that gave my love for ships... Don't destroy my childhood memory... Please...

 

[Khevenhuller]

And to add to that request K, i also want 'Mulberries' in the secret weapons.

Yes the Bismarck you have to build in game but why is it a 1940 battleship and not a SHBB in the tech tree?

I always wondered that

When it comes to kit for amphibious invasions it seems a rather paltry selection, given n79 Armoured and the things the USMC gradually developed in the Pacific, along with the very effective USN Fleet train and logistical support.

Well, for a mod we have altered it so it is available to build in 1936, when the keel was laid, but slowed down construction, as if you go by the timeline then it takes 5 years for her to go from keel laid to worked up and operational.

I have no idea how HOI4 defines an SHBB (White Elephant), but if you throw Bismarck into that bracket then the USS Washington and any BB built after would fit in that category, and possibly Vanguard as well.

Then again, we are reworking the tech tree and doctrines as well.

K

 

[Khevenhuller]

But... But... The battle of the River Plate is the movie that gave my love for ships... Don't destroy my childhood memory... Please...

OK, I will help out....

Harwood was called to the bridge on the sighting of Graf Spee wearing his uniform jacket over his pyjamas and had his slippers on. He remained dressed like that through the battle. So, when you wahtch Anthony Quayle, think of those striped flannel pyjamas and smile.

K