Expressing extreme frustration with "Chess with Death"

[Rags17]

It's an immersion-breaking feature that I truly loathe. But tonight? Just a minute ago? I learned to hate on a new, epic level.

Because this time when the stupid nun showed up, guess what I did? I immediately imprisoned and executed her.

And guess what. I actually did play "chess with death" in that I was playing against a character the game said was dead. THAT is crap. THAT is a bug. THAT is garbage.

Basically the game is saying "The player's character just died. Do we want to just let it happen or add a little event chain to add some flavor to the game ?". Be grateful that you have even the smallest chance to stay alive - beating death does in fact add a big bonus to your health and make you basically immune to most diseases for the next few years which is pretty damned sweet.

For the record I've only had it twice but they were in succeeding rulers. The second time I tried the option I hadn't tried before, but in the end I lost both times. To be fair both of my characters were morons with Learning less than 5 and no redeeming traits so I had no complaints, apart from taking my youngest son with me in the first encounter

 

[soulmata]

The entire point of the event is that it's a clever assassin. Not that it's actually the grim reaper, or the plague, or anything like that. It's an assassin who kills you. Killing the courtier before they have a chance to surprise you should kill the event chain.

 

[AdaChanDesu]

Brother, if I were you, I'd be more worried about Death knocking on your door to ACTUALLY play chess with you.
Or even worse: to play CK2 dynasty elimination mode.

In the realms of probability, this shit's just as likely to happen as the event genociding your families over and over. Maybe you've screwed Death over in another life and now you're paying for it in this sort of chess purgatory? Hell knows, but maybe Satanic Cults in M&M will help you fight back against the tyranny of Death. All you need to do is simply let the power of our Lord Satan into your heart.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

Immortality event is supposed to be rare too; I've had it 3 times in my current play through (769-1080 so far).

Admittedly I save scummed when I finally got a genuine teacher, though it only took 5 reloads in total (and ~11000 ducats!)

 

[Widowmaker94]

Basically the game is saying "The player's character just died. Do we want to just let it happen or add a little event chain to add some flavor to the game ?". Be grateful that you have even the smallest chance to stay alive - beating death does in fact add a big bonus to your health and make you basically immune to most diseases for the next few years which is pretty damned sweet.

For the record I've only had it twice but they were in succeeding rulers. The second time I tried the option I hadn't tried before, but in the end I lost both times. To be fair both of my characters were morons with Learning less than 5 and no redeeming traits so I had no complaints, apart from taking my youngest son with me in the first encounter

Wait, what? How do you figure? Plz explain.

 

[Rags17]

Wait, what? How do you figure? Plz explain.

Cut down to its very core, CK2 has a very simple set of processes at its heart - determine births, deaths and marriages, determine wars and ends of wars and determine all other events, whether based on cycles (eg monthly, yearly etc) or trigger (eg negative money etc). The outcomes of these processes can just be deemed to have happened (eg new courtier is added to your court to bring the total up to the pre-determined minimum) or it can be made into a mini-event ("Gaspard du Nord has arrived at your court").

One of the main events ion the game is determining deaths due to "natural causes". This process simply rolls a die against your current health, adds or subtracts some modifiers based on other traits, current modifiers etc then determines if you die or live for another tick of the clock. The "Chess with Death" event simply turns one of these deaths into a small story that a) adds favour, b) gives the player some input into the process (decision making), c) adds some tension and excitement to the game and d) gives the player some time to come to terms with their impending death.

If you were to strip away all the notification boxes, player decision trees and flavour events then this game is little more than a spreadsheet game - keep clicking the button and watch it unfold before you. I for one really like the Chess with Death event, I never expect to win so if by chance some day I do I will be over the moon.

 

[soulmata]

I don't agree. It is not deterministic, and by your logic, you could say any game is a "spreadsheet game". The AI agents are responding to random events, yes, but both you and the AI are actively trying to hedge their bets against randomess. I argue that "Chess with Death" is not at all "the game rolled you to die of a natural death at age 21". If that were the case, it easily could have been turned into you getting rabies, or cancer, or any other disease (with potential treatments and all that TRD offers). In just about all other RNG cases - deaths from illness, from battle, the like - there are a wide variety of ways you hedge your bets and plan for the worst. With "CwD", you're expected to have a perfectly-tailored character that cannot deviate at all from what the developers decided was "canonical" for that particular event. It's wrapped up in flavor text to make it seem like it's an assassin. Alright, so where's your spymaster? Your bodyguards? Why can't someone with the Paranoid trait decide to immediately imprison and execute the pilgrim? Why doesn't a martial education turn that 20% chance to kill them into an 80%? Why doesn't high diplomacy let you talk your way out of it? Why doesn't high stewardship let you buy them off?

All of the CK2 "supernatural" events have been, up to this point, been things that "seemed" supernatural through the eyes of the people of that time, but had plausible explanations. This is a case where the plausible explanation - an assassin - is outright ruled out now, since even preemptively killing them does nothing, which puts this event 100% into the "Fantasy RPG" category (or a bug), and not "(a)Historical dynastic simulation" category. It's either ACTUALLY a supernatural event, or it's not. It can't be both. If it's the former, it doesn't belong in CK2 (neither does immortality, IMO). If it's the latter, it should have many ways to cope with it rather than hoping you have an extremely narrow set of traits when it happens.

 

[Rags17]

I disagree with your disagreement !

The first time I got the event I tried throwing my son in the way, in the end I ended up killing both me and him. I actually had fun roleplaying it - the next morning the maids come in to open the curtains and find father and son locked in a fatal embrace, the son's face peaceful and calm and the father's locked in rigid terror. Maybe the father had a heart attack, the son tried to comfort him and ended up dying as the father clutched too tightly to his son and his life, killing both with his last ounces of strength. Or did the father strangle the son, in accident or a fit of anger, and then die of a broken heart of regret ? Maybe the father was protecting his son from some evil that may yet be lurking within the castle walls ? There are numerous ways to picture it with numerous plausible ways to explain it all away.

The fact is that with all event chains, the very long ones especially, you can "break" the immersion in a number of different ways. I haven't yet had the Cthulhu chain, but for those that have - have you tried starting a feast, going into hiding, changing your character's name or any of another weird and wonderful actions during the event ? IMHO your trying to kill the "assassin" is in the same boat - you saw it as being explainable ONLY as being an assassin, thus killing him should have ended the event chain. It didn't and that's why you're annoyed. I saw it as happening all in the mind of a man dying or about to die (heart attack ? stroke ? mortal grief ?) so killing or trying to avoid the fate is all useless - death is coming no matter what the victim's mind tries to make of it. In that respect I see it as being in the same league as the Cthulhu chain - in the end you had an incredible sequence of events, but with no one who can actually confirm it.

 

[BrokenSky]

Yeah I really dislike that event, especially the way that even really strong positive traits like genius only help a little. Honestly getting that event is a reasonable reason to go back to a previous save in my opinion.

I mean seriously, you invite him into your home and he violates your hospitality. He shouldn't be able to do that!

 

[Humanoid Typhoon]

"which puts this event 100% into the "Fantasy RPG" category"

It's almost as if leaving the supernatural events rule on purposely means to inject a little bit of fantasy into the game.

Since you won't stop whining I decided to dig the code out for the event. Here it is:

Spoiler

###CHESS WITH DEATH###

character_event = {
    id = RIP.30220
    hide_window = yes

    min_age = 16
    only_playable = yes
    only_capable = yes
    war = no
    has_dlc = "Reapers"
    ai = no

    trigger = {
        NOT = {
            has_game_rule = {
                name = supernatural_events
                value = off
            }
        }
        OR = {
            religion_group = christian
            any_realm_province = { any_neighbor_province = { owner = { religion_group = christian } } }
        }
        is_nomadic = no
        NOT = { has_character_flag = chess_with_death }
        immortal = no
    }

    is_triggered_only = yes

    weight_multiplier = {
        days = 1
        modifier = {
            factor = 2
            OR = {
                any_realm_province = { disease = bubonic_plague }
                any_realm_province = { any_neighbor_province = { disease = bubonic_plague } }
            }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            age = 70
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.4
            NOT = { health = 2 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.2
            NOT = { health = 4 }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.3
            trait = gamer
        }
    }

Basically it says that;
It will only happen to player characters and never to the AI.
It won't happen if you are at war.
It won't happen if have the 'Incapable' trait.
Nomad rulers will not get the event.
Immortal characters won't get the event.
You must be over 16 years old.
You must be of a Christian Religion or have/border a Christian province.

With the above conditions filled it can happen at anytime.

'Game Master' increases your chance to see it by 30%
If your Health is below 4 it increases your chance to see it by 20%
If your health is below 2 it increases your chance to see it by 40%
(For reference average Health is 5, so you are technically dying at this point)
If you are over 70 years old it increases your chance to see it by 50%
Black Death in your realm doubles the chance of it firing.

In reality you have to be literally knocking on Death's Door ( ) just for a decent chance to actually see the event. I'm starting to think everyone who is complaining about the event also has a tendency to console in some life extending traits. I play on Ironman all the time and have never seen it. Hell, i'm lucky to see a ruler live till 70. I usually start preparing for succession when they hit 45.

 

[captainsbeard]

It's either ACTUALLY a supernatural event, or it's not. It can't be both. If it's the former, it doesn't belong in CK2 (neither does immortality, IMO).

trigger = { NOT = { has_game_rule = { name = supernatural_events value = off } }

It is truly a supernatural event, and if you don't want to see supernatural events, you can turn them off instead of arguing that everyone else should be deprived of their version of fun.

 

[Cipher3]

Most of the time in both CK2 and EU4 when I see really weird probability distortions and things that wildly influence numbers and scenarios, it's a checksum issue, primarily from reloading the game or hopping saves without ever restarting. Or cognitive bias, though this would clearly be an extreme example of such lack of luck.

 

[captainsbeard]

Most of the time in both CK2 and EU4 when I see really weird probability distortions and things that wildly influence numbers and scenarios, it's a checksum issue, primarily from reloading the game or hopping saves without ever restarting. Or cognitive bias, though this would clearly be an extreme example of such lack of luck.

By restarting, do you mean quitting to desktop and launching the game again?

 

[Masternachos]

Reading that age, health, and plague are factors in the appearance of the Chess with Death event has increased my already high frustrations exponentially.
Because my last two games have had the event happen to my rather young patricians (one was 19). And while it's obviously not in the code, it seems to only affect my leaders with awesome stats who I've been nerve-wrackingly raising to get their traits just right, and have thus developed sentimental connections with, looking forward to how awesome their reign is going to be. And then that freakin' weary pilgrim shows up!
There are not enough a's or explanation points in the world to fully express my BLAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rubidium]

On the other hand, the last time she showed up for one of my characters, I chose "Not today" and managed to succeed in the 20% chance to kill death. Yes, that's right, my character stabbed the grim reaper in the face and got away with it with only a flesh wound.

So there's that going for it.

 

[Legal Assassin]

Just chiming in here, but I've gotten the event 3 times now, and each time on purpose....not sure if it can just show up unavoidably: there's an event where your guy/gal sees a pilgrim walking around, and can invite the pilgrim to stay in the castle overnight. The second choice, tell the pilgrim to go to an inn also triggered the event, I think.

Can't you just tell the pilgrim to piss off with the 3rd dialogue choice and avoid chess with death altogether?

 

[Avalon8782]

I play almost exclusively in Jewish Abyssinia and I haven't had it trigger once, despite having the Zagwes next door.

 

[Xinkc]

I've gotten the event three times, each in different games.

The first time I won, got the nice health boost, and lost that boost when I got a random bout of Plague well after it had ended. The Plague went away quickly which I took as Death taking away its boon. Oh, this was before M&M too, the only time before it that I got the event.

The second time my game froze and I had to restart. I hadn't died yet though I didn't get the event again.

The third time was when I had the event chain to beautify my castle and throw parties. My character was the leader of the Fellowship of Hel and had high intrigue from being in that group to couple with the high martial I favor in my Norse Germanic Vikings. Didn't even progress to the gaming event though. Apparently my character noticed Death at a party and, since he was brave, I went for options to talk with her. Needless to say I was surprised that there was a high intrigue option that successfully got rid of Death by tricking her into stepping on a trapdoor and pulling the lever. Was definitely a cartoony moment but was pretty neat.

Anyways, I envy you guys that seem to get all the supernatural events.

 

[pquinn232]

I have had this event twice, both in the same game (I played a full post DLC 769-1453 game on Iron man and didn't get it once, then I got it twice in my 1066 game).

The two times I did get it were 3 generations apart, and both times with relatively young rulers in their 30's.

I would imagine that if you are getting it in every game with the frequency you describe, it has to be a bug. Has to be. I mean the event is specifically coded to make it relatively rare.

 

[Ezumiyr]

I love how the OP in this thread gets "respectfully disagreed" to oblivion just for complaining about an event that he - legitimately - doesn't like, while there are many people posting false infos who get upvoted.

No, chess with death does not always lead to death.
Yes, bubonic plague has an influence on it.
Yes, this supernatural event seems to be more common than the others. Since the Reaper's Due, I've seen the Demon's Spawn like 2 times, Immortality three times (2 fails) and chess with death like 10 times. And with only one victory. I play only in multiplayer by the way, so I reckon other players as well.
And no, CK2 is not more a spreadsheet game than many other games... How do you think that other strategy games work? Event chains could totally take into account the presence of the characters involved. And in fact, it's the case in various big mods, and it's also the case when you flee the Black Death by putting your character on a boat. There are also events that get cancelled when the character is found dead. This has nothing to do with how the game works, or how spreadsheet-y it is...