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How does the saying go, long time reader, first time poster. As well as long time player of the game.

Anyway here's some suggestions that I'm sure people covered but I can't find them.

Exploration
1)Don't make it dependant that explorers have to get into port every so often. Unless all this time I have played EU wrong. It's a pain in the a$$ to have so and so go to port every once in a while. Columbus never had to build a port in Hispaniola. They landed period. Formed a small outpost and that was that. Maybe what could happen is you have to make the hit land. Or have something like months not near coast. Where being along the coast cancels sea attrition for explorers.

2)I just read this today. Point explorers in the direction you want them to go. This sounds interesting, kudos to the people who've mentioned it. Well have this like the auto-send feature. If you want to do it yourself you can. Or you can send them and see where they go. Or even just send them, where the AI determines where they go. So you could send some of the explorers away and say have them come back in 18 months.

3)Going back to point number one. Let the explorer, explore on land. Maybe this is where you can introduce "having to get back to base". These Sea explorers, on land are like fish out of water. Sorry for the bad analogy. But let's take drake. You point him to N. America. He's at the coast and you want him to see a little bit of the eastern sea board. Well he can go a few months before attrition sets in. It's like month at sea only months on land.

4)Have fog of exploration. Going back to point #2. You auto-send an explorer, you see them set off into the terra incognito. Only when they return is when you see where the've been. Also they might not come back. Imagine if Spain funds an exploration to the new world, and nobody comes back.

5)If you have auto-send you have to fund them for the months you've set them. So let's say you give them a time limit of 18 months. It would then require you to have funds for those months. So in reality this is more realistic. Becuase you would actually have to have money to do an exploration. This would eliminate having an explorer sit around then just throw a few ships behind him and off you go. This way it would be more historically correct.

Thanks for listening, I have more but it's late and as you can tell from my writing, time to sleep.
 

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I want to add to that list exploration needs to be harder since no matter what "western" country I am I have discovered the entire world before 1600 as spain, portugal, england, france or holland.

1) explorers cannot explore inland, only conquistadors can do that... need more conq.s though.

2) run explorers on a "expedition basis". So each region has an expedition "North west passage" for hudson, "Westerly rout to the indies" for columbus, "North east passage" for Chancellor-Willoghby, "Circumnavigation" Magelland and Drake "Map coast of america" ect.ect.

3) make each expedition cost something... for provisions ect.ect.

4) rule for rutters, make possible to know that an area is ocean and you can cross it with a ship, but dangerously, you can send an expedition to explore a sea zone and its currents to make rutters for that area.

5) Failed expeditions, when you send an explorer out you do not get the brand new maps untill the expedition returns to port.
 
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hjarg

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Originally posted by Viking
1) explorers cannot explore inland, only conquistadors can do that... need more conq.s though.

How do you plan to land conqistador in the province you know nothing about? Besides, explorers actually should be able to completely discover small islands, coastal provinces etc. They didn't spend all the time in their ships you know- sometimes they just needed suppiles etc.

2) run explorers on a "expedition basis". So each region has an expedition "North west passage" for hudson, "Westerly rout to the indies" for columbus, "North east passage" for Chancellor-Willoghby, "Circumnavigation" Magelland and Drake "Map coast of america" ect.ect.

That's a good idea, but please not pre-determined. I might want Hudson to go to India instead and it would really piss everyone off if they can't do it.

3) make each expedition cost something... for provisions ect.ect.

That's a great idea

4) rule for rutters, make possible to know that an area is ocean and you can cross it with a ship, but dangerously, you can send an expedition to explore a sea zone and its currents to make rutters for that area.

Special expeditions to explore and make rutters? Seems like too much trouble to me

5) Failed expeditions, when you send an explorer out you do not get the brand new maps untill the expedition returns to port.

If they return at all.... storms and sea-snakes might have something to say about it as well :)
 

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I already sounded my support for this general idea in the gold discovery thread. I had the additional idea that if you're setting the general policy for a country - it should be possible to build an expedition rather than just wait for historical or randomly occuring explorers/conquistadors to show up. Perhaps there's a stability penalty for this action in the early game since sending an exploration expedition in the early game challenges the existing conventional wisdom that the earth is flat. However, this penalty goes away after another exploration successfully returns to Europe.

After all there is historical precedent for explorations prior to 1492: there is substantial evidence that the Vikings were in NE Canada/Greenland/Iceland several centuries before the EU2 timeframe. Can everyone also remember Kon Tiki - the guy sailed in a reed boat across the Atlantic. My point here is that its technologically feasible even in the carrak era.
 

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This is a good collection of ideas! I am ranking the post 5!
 

unmerged(5322)

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Guys these are some good suggestions. One of the my problems with the game is exploring is an after thought. Exploring from this time was extremly important but also dangerous.

I would really like randomness to exploration. The one post about forming an expedition, I really like. Say an expedition costs 100d for 24 months. Lets say you're portugal, and you fund this expedition. Well it takes a few months, just like raising an army or building ships. When its done it contains like 5-15 ships and 5-20000 men. It should also have an explorer and conquistador, it could have a good one or bad depending are leader qualities. Then you click auto-send should you choose it. If you click auto-send then the expedition goes off and you might hear from it every 3 months or something like that. Or you don't hear from it at all. This way there's an element of surprise. You don't know what you are going to find.
 

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I'm not sure having to pay a lot is the right idea. My suggestion about exploration is to make explorer / conquistador work a bit like colonist. The explorer starts in one of you port. You can move him around like any other fleet, but only in KNOWN sea zone. You have a special order for him "expedition", where you can select an area or a general direction(like North Atlantic, or West, etc). Then the explorer leaves with his ships (and the cost of the expedition is not to high, as you already have to pay for the ships), and start to explore some of the non discovered sea zone in the selected area, without any control from the player (a bit like colonist move). The explorer will decide by himself to come back (and if he decides to late, he dies). When he comes back, all the explored sea zones are revealed on the map (but they are not before he come back, and not at all if he dies).
Conquistador will work the same, except that you have to transport them to land first.
I forget : the list of available area for expedition will expend as new discoveries are made. So Caribean sea will be available only if at least one sea zone of the atlantic area, adjacent to the caribean, as been discovered (note that the expedition determine only the initial direction in which the explorer leaves, he can stil discover a Caribean sea zone "by accident" if his goal was first to explore the Atlantic).
 

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Originally posted by Rod
Guys these are some good suggestions. One of the my problems with the game is exploring is an after thought. Exploring from this time was extremly important but also dangerous.
Well it takes a few months, just like raising an army or building ships. When its done it contains like 5-15 ships and 5-20000 men. It should also have an explorer and conquistador, it could have a good one or bad depending are leader qualities. Then you click auto-send should you choose it. If you click auto-send then the expedition goes off and you might hear from it every 3 months or something like that. Or you don't hear from it at all.

5000-20 000 men waou, waou, which exploration are you referring to?
If Colombus had 3 ships, that makes 5000/3 = 1667 men per ship.
Well I think we should send Magellan with the USS Nimitz then. (With F-18's and tomahawks to crush these stupid natives). 200-300 guys leaving is already on the high end of distribution I think!

PS: I want a german explorer with the U-71 exploration / attack submarine which would multirole as a privateer aroung Gibraltar in 1601, (also with Panzers to partition Poland alone in 1460).
 

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I think he was confused by your idea, that you have to tell the explorer to go on a mission in a general direction.

I think its a great idea... I am not sure about named missions, such as "So Caribean sea (mission) will be available only if at least one sea zone of the atlantic area, adjacent to the caribean". I think you should just point him in a general direction.... and that the AI should put emphasis on having the Explorer follow any new coastline he encounters, as opposed to wandering around the sea even after finding land! :D
 
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Originally posted by Steph

Yes, but I don't understand the meaning of your question. Is there a contradiction with that and what I suggest?

This is the quote that i refer to.
You can move him around like any other fleet, but only in KNOWN sea zone.

Perhaps I misunderstood You.

Adler
 

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There have been other posts to discuss about exploration. The main issue is that because players have a good knowledge of the known world, explorations directed by players will always do much better than historical results.
England, France, Spain and Portugal can easily discover the entire world before 1600. Making explorers leave on "expeditions" that are out of player control can approximate the historical nature of exploration.
 

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Originally posted by Adler


This is the quote that i refer to.
You can move him around like any other fleet, but only in KNOWN sea zone.

Perhaps I misunderstood You.

Adler

Ok. What I mean is you can move him freely only in known sea zones, and you can't in unknown sea zones. In the latest he will move automatically. So once Spain as establish a colony in Cuba, it is possible to "ferry" first the explorer from Cadiz to Cuba (moving like any other fleet without explorer, so it cannot enter uncharted waters), and then ask him to start exploration from their, limiting attrition (and then he will move without player control while exploring).
 

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That's an excellent description of your idea. I hope some Parodoxies thought of this, or at least consider it for the final version...or for EU#3 :D
 

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Originally posted by Blade!
... I am not sure about named missions, such as "So Caribean sea (mission) will be available only if at least one sea zone of the atlantic area, adjacent to the caribean".

I generally agree with Blade here - after all Columbus didn't know the difference between the Winward Islands and the East Indies right away. However, he spent more time crusing the Carribean in his subsequent voyages.

However, the existing mission generator gives the player all kinds of exploration options such as: discover Hudson Bay/Bangok/etc. I think this is the games way of modeling the rumors or theories that were related to these places IRL. Ideally, the mission generator could be integrated into the proposed automated exploration process; you choose an initial generic mission: Map coast of Africa, Find spice islands or Explore Siberia and decide how many ships to send. After these broad missions are completed, more specific ones become available: Map Carribean, Map North American Coast, Discover Hudson Bay, etc. The final missions could include things such as: colonize Santee/Delaware/Isle Royale, place trading posts in five fur producing provinces, etc or discover the great lakes (conquistador expedition).

While certain countries would have a natural tendency for the specific quests: such as Portugal for Africa and Russia for Siberia; it may not be so clear for other ones. Venice may try to find a Northern Silk Road around the Ottoman blockade; or they may try to go around Africa. I don't think it would be unrealistic for France or Spain to try to explore around the African horn as well.
 

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Perhaps I have not been really clear. There's no real "named" missions. It is just a way to tell your explorer were to go. Like "Explore North Atlantic". Obvsioulsy, you cannot ask your explorer "explore the Carribeans" if you don't know they exist. So my idea is to limit the list to know water or general direction. The explorer could still discover the Caribeans if by chance he arrives in a Carribean sea zone, and then he wil give it a new name, and this new area will be available for the next expedition.
The "exploration mission" is just a way to tell the explorer were to start his exploration, but then he can go elsewhere.
 

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Steph -
You're crystal clear to me, but my point is the existing game already provides victory points for discovering certain provinces (be it land or water). My suggestion takes this existing mechanism to the next level. Ultimately, if the exploration process is automated, it doesn't make much of a difference if the missions are named or not.
 

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Originally posted by Steph
Perhaps I have not been really clear. There's no real "named" missions. It is just a way to tell your explorer were to go. Like "Explore North Atlantic". Obvsioulsy, you cannot ask your explorer "explore the Carribeans" if you don't know they exist. So my idea is to limit the list to know water or general direction. The explorer could still discover the Caribeans if by chance he arrives in a Carribean sea zone, and then he wil give it a new name, and this new area will be available for the next expedition.
The "exploration mission" is just a way to tell the explorer were to start his exploration, but then he can go elsewhere.


This is clear and perfect! ;)