Exploits are fun, but they really do need to be fixed.

[Andaries]

So I finally have a some time to sit down and respond this, sorry it took so long.

Also for clarification as to using the word exploit. An exploit is something that is not intended, which is achieved by doing something unexpected. Exploiting a mechanic is not an exploit. So castle stacking for example is exploiting the mechanic of capital bonus and marshalls. Building extra castles - more than typically allowed - is exploiting a bug to achieve an unexpected outcome, thereby cheating. The term gamey was first introduced on these forums to refer to the first case, but has since been hijacked by people using the later.

Well that is a good clarification on what you mean by exploit.

I think the castle stacking via build event is a good example of an exploit that needs fixing. It allows you to get around the one city and church must be built rule which seems to be very against intent of system rules. The cheep price I can live with as it wont always succeed but it could stand to be raised a little maybe. *shrug*

I have only seen you bring up the castle issue is their any other exploit that seems to be glaring real bad in the game? As the thread title implies multiple exploits. I haven't had enough time to play ck II vanilla since way of life came out so I am a little behind in what exactly is going on with it issues wise as I have been playing a total conversion mod on an older version.

 

[Dracko81]

I have only seen you bring up the castle issue is their any other exploit that seems to be glaring real bad in the game? As the thread title implies multiple exploits. I haven't had enough time to play ck II vanilla since way of life came out so I am a little behind in what exactly is going on with it issues wise as I have been playing a total conversion mod on an older version.

Did you read the first post about steward milking? Or the revoke all your vassals titles exploit?

Well I did promise someone else an exploit for them so how about the "I need more opinion modifier" exploit?

Basically find a vassal who is fairly weak, that has a plot running or a traitor flag for whatever reason. Revoke their title causing them to rebel, crush them quickly, gain +25 bonus to opinion for "crushed major revolt". repeat if you still need more opinion.

Works great if you can land some heathens in your realm for later abuse, or even different cultures.

 

[Dracko81]

P'dox please patch my lack of self-control.

Pretty sure I haven't posted one you yet, how about the destroy titles while gavelkind exploit?

Grant some heathen some land and wait for the revoke timer to run its course.
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/711905392631346243/A1FAFD481A72CD1641C6712A6DAC5978B468C208/

Grant him a ducal title that has no direct vassals created - can also be used to destroy kingdoms from memory.
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/711905392631346553/82B89A5693C1AC3794C879530E0935D63ABA712F/

Revoke and be glad for one less ducal title hanging around your neck.
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/711905392631346794/D4FD1FFDC412F8D54A248C7C0E3D9CA10B801FD8/

 

[Alliegorical]

And I will say it again, if your dependent on money making, you are wasting resources. Having money doesn't make you strong.



Until you say see this and see that with a +192.5% bonus I get 4.2k from my capital alone. The bonus applies to all holdings in that province I hold. So each holding in my capital actually is equivilant to having 3 counties in relations to troops. So 7 Castles ~= 21 Castles worth of Troops, compare to 10 Castles worth of troops you would get. So every faction member is supplying effectively half the strength of what they would to me as they would to you.

As I said before though your taking the thread off topic with this discussion, it is a matter of taste. Whether you agree with the playstyle is irrelevent.

Your math is wrong, because as I said, levy bonuses are additive. What this means is that you cannot simply look at your total levy your capital, and multiply that number by 2/3 to arrive at the total levy if those castles were outside your capital duchy.

To use that screenshot you linked as an example: the total bonus is +142.5%. Without the capital county bonus, it would be 92.5%. The bonus 50% is added to the current bonus %. This means that it's adding 50% of the base levy, not the total levy. 50% of a base 555 heavy infantry is 278. That's what you're getting for having that castle in your county. 278/(1637-278) comes out to about 20.5%, so in your case, 6 extra castles in your capital is equivalent to 7.2 castles outside your capital duchy.

 

[Andaries]

Did you read the first post about steward milking? Or the revoke all your vassals titles exploit?

Well I did promise someone else an exploit for them so how about the "I need more opinion modifier" exploit?

Basically find a vassal who is fairly weak, that has a plot running or a traitor flag for whatever reason. Revoke their title causing them to rebel, crush them quickly, gain +25 bonus to opinion for "crushed major revolt". repeat if you still need more opinion.

Works great if you can land some heathens in your realm for later abuse, or even different cultures.

Not sure I would label the vassal crushed revolt a full blown exploit. I have heard of conspiracies of giving someone land with the intention of scapegoating them later for a popular opinion boast. I would say what needs to be fixed about it is the ability to stack the opinion modifier.

 

[Dracko81]

Your math is wrong, because as I said, levy bonuses are additive. What this means is that you cannot simply look at your total levy your capital, and multiply that number by 2/3 to arrive at the total levy if those castles were outside your capital duchy.

To use that screenshot you linked as an example: the total bonus is +142.5%. Without the capital county bonus, it would be 92.5%. The bonus 50% is added to the current bonus %. This means that it's adding 50% of the base levy, not the total levy. 50% of a base 555 heavy infantry is 278. That's what you're getting for having that castle in your county. 278/(1637-278) comes out to about 20.5%, so in your case, 6 extra castles in your capital is equivalent to 7.2 castles outside your capital duchy.

Indeed the maths is wrong, I accounted twice for holding bonuses. However it is not what you have calculated at all. If you add up all the bonuses, you will see it is +192.5%. Of that 105% is from county bonus and martial. So each castle accounts for another external castle. 2:1 bonus not a 3:1. Definately not the ratio you are suggesting.