Explain movement values to me

[Green Knight]

I do not understand how speed is implemented in this game:

It looks like +1 walking speed gets turned into either +20 or +25 speed, but starting at 95 for the very slowest mechs.

Correspondingly, sprint is +35 or +40.

Relatedly HBS sprinting speed seems to be something between running and sprinting speed from TT.

How much speed do you need to move 1 dot of clear terrain?

===

A LUMBERING mech, speed 2/3, like the Urbie:

Walk: 95
Sprint: 165

A slow mech, like atlas, is 3/5:

Walk: 95
Sprint: 165

THIS IS THE SAME AS THE SLOWER SPEED!

A speed 4/6 mech (very common in TT) has:

Walk: 120
Sprint: 200

Speed 5/8:

Walk: 140
Sprint: 240

Speed 6/9:

Walk: 165
Sprint: 275

Speed 7/11:

Walk: 190
Sprint: 315

A very fast mech, 8/12, like the spider is implemented as:

Walk: 210
Sprint: 350

 

[ThatGuyMontag]

Looking at the numbers it's 25m for each hex of speed with a modifier: Spider +10, Jenner/Firestarter/Shadowhawk +15, Centurion and slower +20

After that, sprinting appears to be double base hex walking speed, with a modifier that is positive on low speeds, negative on high speeds: Spider is -50, Jenner -35, Firestarter -25, Shadowhawk/Centurion 0, Atlas/Urbie +15.

During development Urbie was given an explicit speed boost so that they could have it in the game and keep it actually usable in a lance.

 

[ThatGuyMontag]

Also, the math on movement is difficult because the terrain is 3D, so dips and rises affect how far the mech can move. The grid underlying the terrain marks hexes is 24m though from what we got told during development.

 

[jgf1123]

I believe 1 hex = 24. If you look at the MoveTable in CombatGameConstants.json, it lists the distance for various numbers of jump jets (ignore the 30; the 60 is 1 jump jet). I took jump jets out of the starting 8/12/8 Spider and mapped how far it could jump, and it matches MoveTable with a 1 hex = 24 unit conversation factor.

The game is approximately 25% scaled up from TT. That is, the 4/6/? mechs have walk 120 units = 5 hexes, so 25% further. (Weapon ranges are also scaled up by 25%.) Faster mechs get a smaller boost while the 3/5/? juggernauts are more like a 30% boost. But the evasion radii have also been set so mechs are more differentiated. In TT, 3/5/? could get a +2 attack modifier by running while even an 8/12/? mech can only get a +4 modifier. Walking, 3/5/? has max 1 evasion while an 8/12/? can get 5 evasion charges.

 

[Ark Evensong]

Also note that while the underlying grid is indeed 24 'units', (I guess meters?) the pathing_def for ... well, everything, adds another 1.05 multiplier to the 'movement cost'.
So even on ideal flat terrain, each hex costs 25.2 movement. I believe any terrain modifiers overwrite this value. (Set it high enough, and you move further through forests than open terrain.)

Setting it below 1.0 has some weird results - 0.1 doesn't get you ten times your normal movement range, for example, so I'm not entirely sure if I'm applying it right. (I also tried 0.0001, and that (very) roughly doubles the range on an Atlas. (And 0.0 makes it glitch out. Divide by zero error, I assume?)

I haven't quite delved into how much turning eats up movement, but it's some. (Might even be the answer to <1.0 values acting weird?)

Jump Jets get to ignore the 1.05 multiplier, and don't do corners, but are still susceptible to some irregularities of the 3D terrain.
(Also, that 8th Jump Jet on the Spider only adds +15 instead of 30. Still almost a full 'ring' of hexes to jump to, tho'.)

 

[jgf1123]

Thanks, I missed the 1.05 multiplier. I was wondering if a 140/240 mech could get 3 evasion (there is a hex ~133.7 away, which is just over the 130 threshold for 3 evasion), and I think this explains why they can't get there.

I forgot to mention that the ToHitMovingTargetDistances table, which says how many evasion charges a mech gets from movement, also corroborates the 1 hex = 24 units conversion. I checked this by training a mechwarrior without Evasive Movement to 10 Piloting and seeing how much evasion she got jumping around flat ground (a lake).

 

[Max_Killjoy]

I wonder if dropping that multiplier to a straight 1.00 might help Evasion a little bit.

 

[me987654]

Better to modify the evasion pip breakpoints in combat constants

 

[jgf1123]

I wonder if dropping that multiplier to a straight 1.00 might help Evasion a little bit.

What do you want to do with evasion? The constants HBS has right now has all of the 4/6/? and 5/8/? chassis (almost half of them) have maximum 2 evasion charges from walking. 3/5/? juggernauts can only get 1 evasion, while faster mechs in the striker/scout roles can get more. This decision seems deliberate.

That said, I wouldn't mind some differentiation between the 4/6/? and 5/8/? mechs since there are a lot of them. Note ToHitMovingTargetDistances lists the thresholds for evasion, and ToHitMovingPipUMs gives the corresponding To Hit malus. I wouldn't mind inserting a "2.5 evasion" with a -5 To Hit that the 5/8/? mechs can reach but 4/6/? can't.

 

[me987654]

What do you want to do with evasion? The constants HBS has right now has all of the 4/6/? and 5/8/? chassis (almost half of them) have maximum 2 evasion charges from walking. 3/5/? juggernauts can only get 1 evasion, while faster mechs in the striker/scout roles can get more. This decision seems deliberate.

That said, I wouldn't mind some differentiation between the 4/6/? and 5/8/? mechs since there are a lot of them. Note ToHitMovingTargetDistances lists the thresholds for evasion, and ToHitMovingPipUMs gives the corresponding To Hit malus. I wouldn't mind inserting a "2.5 evasion" with a -5 To Hit that the 5/8/? mechs can reach but 4/6/? can't.

You don't need to do that... you can mod combat constants to change the breakpoints.

If you go with with something like
20,70,100,125,150,180

Then your 120 movement mechs can get 3 pips and your 140 movement mechs can get 4 pips

Note that this makes is so ANY movement at all gives one pip