Experienced map modder wanted!

[Vaximillian]

- @ Vax. I expect a Russian to know the names of Russian places better than me, use the name you feel most appropriate when destalinizing them . The exceptions would be St. Petersburg, which I would like to keep in its English name.

Acknowledged!

I'd rather say pre-stalinizing :rofl:

 

[Ovg]

Rename Istanbul to AAAATURKEY!!!, and btw. Could you add polish fonetic symbols like ąęćźżłó to provinces? Call it old fashioned nationalism

 

[Vaximillian]

Rename Istanbul to AAAATURKEY!!!, and btw. Could you add polish fonetic symbols like ąęćźżłó to provinces? Call it old fashioned nationalism

I could type it on the map, but it'd be difficult to use province cearch function with them in-game.

 

[Ovg]

I mean on the map of course, not in the province names I know how hard searching would be then.

 

[Vaximillian]

I mean on the map of course, not in the province names I know how hard searching would be then.

In that case yes, I'm not against

 

[Terminator]

Therefore we are looking for an experience map editor to assist us in changing the names on the map, without changing the province IDs or the general look of the vanilla map. We would be very grateful to the person willing to assist us in this matter.

I used to change a whole bunch of province names for a project o'mine some time ago. Mostly replaced Soviet city/province names with their pre-Soviet equivalents. There are some screenshots and a detailed list of changes in that thread.

Maybe that information could be helpful for you.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334948&page=45

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334948&page=47

 

[Dutchemperor]

.......Tanssylvania, where Romanian, Hungarian and German are all contenders on a city by city basis. The discussion can be rather heated on this subject...

I am for it that cities, in Austria-Hungary, should get the name of the group of people wich was a majority in the city (like i have done here), so Pressburg was mainly German so i think it should be called Pressburg.

Edit: BTW: Bistritz/Bistrita lies in the German part there on the map, so that will be Bistritz. It lies on the black dot i made on the ethnic map of A-H.

 

[Dermaglen]

Sorry, but I don't agree with you. IMO all Hungarian cities should have a Hungarian name due to it was a very strong policy of the government: make everybody speak Hungarian in daily life. The teached children to pray in Hungarian and there were no ethnic names of the cities. Only ethnic group that had uniqe names for cities were Germans but they were assimilated to Hungary and became mostly Hungarian. Great example of it is Sopron: it was mostly populated by Germans and when in 1920 the city could decide where to belong they preferred Hungary over Austria. The names used by them were not official names. I still recommend to use just Hungarian names because just they are correct historically.

 

[Dutchemperor]

Sorry, but I don't agree with you. IMO all Hungarian cities should have a Hungarian name due to it was a very strong policy of the government: make everybody speak Hungarian in daily life. The teached children to pray in Hungarian and there were no ethnic names of the cities. Only ethnic group that had uniqe names for cities were Germans but they were assimilated to Hungary and became mostly Hungarian. Great example of it is Sopron: it was mostly populated by Germans and when in 1920 the city could decide where to belong they preferred Hungary over Austria. The names used by them were not official names. I still recommend to use just Hungarian names because just they are correct historically.

Buy you are hunagrian so actually you cant speak neutral about it, when it comes to the low countries so you dont need me for fair names in belgium.

And kaiserreich in 1936 shows a divided A-H, why? Because the state became more federal and each group of people got his rights, state and vote in the country, so i think with that all so federal that projects like speak hungarian would have stopped and especially against germans. Hungary is still puppet of austria and so austria can force hungary to do things or to stop things. And the cuty of sopromn, ödenburg never had to choose because the central powers won ww1.

and transylvania has also the name siebenburgen (also in english) because: long time ago (middle ages) some germans came to transuylvania and build 7 cities (siebenburgen, 7cities !!), with german names, many other ethnic groups came live there and also made a name for the city. and the names are official because at us on school we have a german map of europe and there these cities also has the german names and the romanian under them. the map was made in 1991 (russia is on it) so that is not long ago and germany is already abandoning pro german stuff and they would have done this too if this werent official names.

 

[Dermaglen]

Believe me, I can speak neutral about it or if not I still know lot more about the Hungarian history because I can read far more sources in Hungarian language. Austria-Hungary became more federalised but if you look at the map of KR you can see that mostly the AUstrian part was split (Austria, Bohemia, Galizien). Hungary is just in two parts: Hungary and Croatia and it has a historical reason: Croatia made it's own Ausgleich with Hungary in 1868 and they got some autonomy from Hungarian government. But on the other parts of Hungary the government policy about make everybody speak Hungarian and assimilate ethnic gorups remained. There is nothing like universal suffrage, in 1918 jst 12% (or even less, I don't remember exactly) could vote in Hungary. It was a far most conservative government than the Austrian one.
Austria-Hungary is more complicated than Hungary is being a puppet of Austria (although in KR there were no other way to show dual monarchy). Both country was free to do anything inside the country and they shared just the foreign affairs, army (common k.u.k. army but Austria had Landwehr and Hungary had Honvédség) and finance. Austria was not allowed to tell Hungary what they must do, it was a union of equal countries. Just the Kaiser und König had the power to interve in Hungarian politics but he haven't used his right so much and there were no reason for him to stop the Hungarian ethnic policy. Although the Habsburgs were a German they felt nothing extreme for Germans, they were just one of the dozen ethnic gorups of the Dual Monarchy.
Siebenburgen means seven castles btw, and yeah there live the Saxons in Southern Transylvania. They had there own rights within the Hungarian state and within the Kingdom of Transylvania also along with the Szeklers. In 1437 they formed an Union along with Hungarian nobility in Kápolna. ABout the map: you say it is a German map, so why wouldn't they use German names where it is possible? On Hungarian maps we call Wien Bécs, Prague Prága, Iasi Jászvásár, Warsaw Varsó and so on. Does that mean that they are official names?

 

[Dutchemperor]

about the map, not like that way, Vienna is at us Wenen, prague is praag, paris parijs, berlin berlijn. in the french netherlands there is a city called calais. it was founded in 800 by flemish poeple under the dutch name kalles, like lille is rijsel, it means there have lived, historical, flemish there no so the city has a bound with its original country, like the siebenburgen cities has a bound with germany, or what is was all back then. mosly this is what you find in border area, we call the german city emerrich emerrik while they call our arnhem arnheim. thye have an historical bound with a country but they get conquered by another country (france, transylvania, hungary) and they get new names because the country considers it as a own city.(like ww2: sevastopol became theodorichshafen etc.) if there was a german country called siebenburgen and woiuld have surived untill now the names there would all have been german and nobody would use the romanian names. if you conquer a city it is not rightly your own and the people will not right talk your language an your city name. you can own it but there is no bound because it isnt your culture, the major culture was german, the germans still live there as germans and the magyarise didint work so.

http://www.anesi.com/rmap1.jpg this a thrties map of europe and you still see germans in transylvania. (the people have to say wich culutre they belong to and they said the german)

german is majority so ere name will be used. A-H is a diffecult case, just let every ethnic group in this multi-ethnic state have his own names.

 

[Terminator]

Acknowledged!

I'd rather say pre-stalinizing :rofl:

Some of the Soviet province names in the Vanilla map were adopted under Lenin and have nothing to do with Stalin.

 

[Dermaglen]

Germans were strongly Magyarised, maybe as much as the Jews. Most of the citizens had German origins while other ethnic groups were mainly peasants. But some centuries later they became more and more Hungarian on their own without any pressure. They started to use Hungarian language and became Magyars. ANd although they are a majority in their region they are a minority compared to other ethnicities. And they can use the German names of the cities between each other but the formal name still remains Hungarian: that one is on signs, apper in newspapers, etc.

 

[Dutchemperor]

Germans were strongly Magyarised, maybe as much as the Jews. Most of the citizens had German origins while other ethnic groups were mainly peasants. But some centuries later they became more and more Hungarian on their own without any pressure. They started to use Hungarian language and became Magyars. ANd although they are a majority in their region they are a minority compared to other ethnicities. And they can use the German names of the cities between each other but the formal name still remains Hungarian: that one is on signs, apper in newspapers, etc.

Ff they were so hungarian why were they still in 1910 counted as germans, or did they say they were german. in presents day czech live no germans anymore, but go on the german autobahn, all the cities in the sudeten (and beyond) are still signed in there old german name.

they were a minorty in the nation but a mojarity in the cities and some regions, and this provinces (hoi2 map) has the name of it capital and the name of the capital is given by the people (majority) wich live in the city and that are the germans .

can we not do the names by ethnic of the city?

 

[Dermaglen]

Nowaday Transylvania is not the same as Hungarian one. Here the German name is represented (I don't know if it was the same in Hungarian times). But I don't think it is used as a formal name of the city. In the past there were just Hungarian name used for cities. The local knew just that form of the city and they used it among themselves. Although there is a singnificant Hungarian population in Slovakia, Romania and Serbia, they mostly use the local form of the city names. They say something like "When I was in Kosice..." although there is the Hugarian name of Kassa for it. But it is easier to use it that way: it is used as it every time everywhere.
Hungary is a special case in ethnicites. Lots of people who called themselves Hungarian were not Hungarian by blood. It was due to the big tolerance towards other people. For example that's why immigrated 500.000+ Jews from Galizien to Hungary and they were assimilated very fast (less than 50 years). Ethnically they remained Jews but in their culture they became Hungarian. That's the same with other ethnic groups also. Budapest, Miskolc, Besztercebánya, etc. etc. lots of cities majority were Germans in one time and they have their own German names. Does it mean that we should use German names for every single Hungarian territory?

 

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The discussion above illustrates why we haven't decided on the names yet. Dermaglen is right in that the official name of all those cities would be in Hungarian, while Dutchemperor is right in that the official name is not always the name by which the city is most widely known.
My guess is we would need to choose the name that would appear on an English map. Which one that would be? No idea, but it could mean having a hodgepodge of German, Romanian and Hungarian names. Currently there are four different area's where discussing.

- Bratislava needs to be renamed, as the name was invented after WW1. But do we choose Pressburg or Pozsony?

- Should Slovakia keep its Slovak citynames, or should it be Magyarised? Note that Slovakia can be released voluntarily by Hungary in the Mod.

- Should the cities in Transsylvania remain Romanian, be Magyarized or should we adopt a, largest population gets to name the city approach? See the map above.

- Last but not least, the Voivodina. Should we keep the well known Serb names or Magyarize?

 

[Dutchemperor]

- Bratislava needs to be renamed, as the name was invented after WW1. But do we choose Pressburg or Pozsony?

- Should Slovakia keep its Slovak citynames, or should it be Magyarised? Note that Slovakia can be released voluntarily by Hungary in the Mod.

- Should the cities in Transsylvania remain Romanian, be Magyarized or should we adopt a, largest population gets to name the city approach? See the map above.

- Last but not least, the Voivodina. Should we keep the well known Serb names or Magyarize?

- Pressburg, there lived more Germans and is so close to the Austrian border that it actually can be considered as part of Austria. It lies on the border.

- Difficult, they can be hungarian because the slovak had no special rights or another helping point and after realeased and a puppet of hungary there is still a big change the name will not changed back.

- Transsylvania -> my proposal

- Magyarised, there lived many ethnic groups and because of that many ethnic groups is was easy to be magyarised.

 

[Dermaglen]

The discussion above illustrates why we haven't decided on the names yet. Dermaglen is right in that the official name of all those cities would be in Hungarian, while Dutchemperor is right in that the official name is not always the name by which the city is most widely known.
My guess is we would need to choose the name that would appear on an English map. Which one that would be? No idea, but it could mean having a hodgepodge of German, Romanian and Hungarian names. Currently there are four different area's where discussing.

- Bratislava needs to be renamed, as the name was invented after WW1. But do we choose Pressburg or Pozsony?

- Should Slovakia keep its Slovak citynames, or should it be Magyarised? Note that Slovakia can be released voluntarily by Hungary in the Mod.

- Should the cities in Transsylvania remain Romanian, be Magyarized or should we adopt a, largest population gets to name the city approach? See the map above.

- Last but not least, the Voivodina. Should we keep the well known Serb names or Magyarize?

I still prefer Hungarian names for all provinces. I know that later some states can be released but look at for example vanilla Romania: they don't use Hungarian names in northern Transylvania although it can be given to Hungary by Vienna Diktat. I think province names should represent the things as they are in 1936.

Bratislava - Pozsony
Zilina - Zsolna
Banska Bystrica - Besztercebánya
Kosice - Kassa
Presov - Ungvár (actually the name of Uzghorod, but Ungvár is the capital of Subcarpathia)
Satu Mare - Szatmárnémeti
Cluj Napoca - Kolozsvár
Bacau - Here's a problem: Bacau isn't even in Transylvania. The HoI authors made quite a geographical mistake here, since the region of Bacau should be called Máramarossziget
Brasov - Brassó
Sibiu - Nagyszeben
Timisoara - Temesvár
Zrenjanin - Nagybecskerek
Novi Sad - Újvidék
And a minor correction: the vanilla HoI calls the city of Pécs falsely Pecs. It does matter in Hungarian.

 

[unmerged(63886)]

Vax... While you're at it, could you please take a look and see if the "Germany", "Soviet Union", etc that's on the map is on the colorscaleslayer? Can't remeber and it would be a nice little mod to make.

It always been a bit awkard playing a tsarist Russia with the words "Soviet Union" over it..

 

[Ovg]

I would vote for just removing these HUGE LETTERS from the map (ya know, "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", "GERMANY", "FRANCE", "SOVIET UNION")