Expelling the Jews should create an opinion penalty with the Pope, weaken Jizya for Muslims

[Jorlem]

Basically, I'm of the opinion that the ability to borrow money from, then expel the Jews is far too powerful, especially early game. Throughout the time period, the Popes fairly consistently tried to protect the Jews, which I think is sufficient justification for the decision to expel the Jews to significantly lower papal opinion. It shouldn't be enough to allow excommunication on its own, but should be enough to bring it into range if the Pope already didn't like the character.

Additionally, for Muslims, expelling the Jews should only be available if they have provinces paying Jizya taxes, and if taken, should substantially reduce the amount gained from the tax modifier, as they have expelled some of those that were paying said tax.

I'm not really sure what to do for the other religions that can expel the Jews, though I think they should have some balancing detriment as well. Like the ones suggested above, they should be consistent and visible in the decision, not just not qualifying for some positive events, which I believe is the only real "downside", currently.

 

[Darkrenown]

Yeah, it would be nice to have some more interactivity from this decision.

 

[klopkr]

Does anyone know how the patriarchs of orthodoxy felt about expelling the jews? Also you should be able to borrow from and expel Jews as any religion if you have a Jewish county in your lands.

 

[Archinorf]

To add to these ideas, I would suggest not to only scale the money borrowed with your rank, but also increase the wealth of the Jewish merchants with time. Meaning that you can only borrow a small amount if they have been here for a few years, and way more if they have been here for decades.
Expelling the Jews would then mean that when re-inviting them, it will take time for you to borrow a substantial amount of money.

 

[omega20056]

Wouldn't local bishops approve of it because of the ban on usury?

 

[DmUa]

Additionally, for Muslims, expelling the Jews should only be available if they have provinces paying Jizya taxes, and if taken, should substantially reduce the amount gained from the tax modifier, as they have expelled some of those that were paying said tax.

- are you implying that muslims eat non-muslim peoples? Because i cant interpret this statement in any other way.

 

[Slayen]

- are you implying that muslims eat non-muslim peoples? Because i cant interpret this statement in any other way.

How.... what?

In what possible way does what Jorlem say imply THAT?!

.... hold on. ::UNLEASHES THE POWER OF GOOGLE::

Oh for the- I really hope you are being facetious here. But, as this is the internet,:

ex·pel
ikˈspel/
verb
gerund or present participle: expelling
deprive (someone) of membership of or involvement in a school or other organization.
"she was expelled from school"
synonyms: throw out, eject, bar, ban, debar, drum out, oust, remove, get rid of, dismiss;More
cashier;
informalchuck out, sling out, kick out, boot out, give someone the bum's rush
"the opposition leader was expelled from her party"
antonyms: admit

• force (someone) to leave a place, especially a country.
  synonyms: banish, exile, deport, evict, expatriate, drive out, throw out
  "he was expelled from the country"
• force out or eject (something), especially from the body.
  "she expelled a shuddering breath"
  synonyms: let out, discharge, eject, issue, send forth
  "Dolly expelled a hiss"

It's the bolded definition that is being used here.

And if you are being facetious and wonder why I even considered the possibility you are being serious, I point to the first part of my sig as my answer.

 

[DmUa]

How.... what?

- after thinking about it he could have meant that muslims use their disentegration-annihilation guns on jews instead of eating them. And i love Babylon 5, to bad Straczynski became massive douche and will probably ruin possible sequel.

 

[Jorlem]

I honestly have no idea what you guys are referring to.

On topic, though, in Arumba's current CK2 LP, he demonstrated another issue with the mechanic, one summarized by this comic I came across:

Borrowing then expelling the Jews creates far more money than it costs to bring them back, around four to five hundred gold in profit. In addition to the religion specific suggestions given above, these costs need to be rebalanced to make sense, and not just be a multigenerational gold generator. First, I would suggest scaling the cost to bring the Jews back to the amount gained from the expulsion. Secondly, there should be some sort of gradual recharge to represent that even if the Jews are allowed back, most will remain where they had moved to. That is, once the Jews are readmitted, it should take some amount of time before expelling them again will grant the same amount of money as before. Additionally, if the Jews are expelled from a country more than a few times, it is possible that most might decide to not come back, even if the expulsion is lifted.

 

[Jorlem]

Yeah, it would be nice to have some more interactivity from this decision.

My apologies for dragging up this old thread, but as there are apparently going to be some adjustments to religion in the upcoming DLC, I thought this would be an opportune time to try to remind you of this. I hope you don't mind.