Expel Minorities - Changes
- Thread starter Johan
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Dynamic population would be the ideal but lets be honest, its not really feasible to integrate into EU4 at this point. But hopefully in #U5
I find this a rather interesting discussion topic. While the current proposed solution by Johan does help with the issue people have where nations become monocultural giants in Europe with no nations to release cores from, it still causes the issues people discussed for the colonies. It being an issue is mainly because CNs have refused to culture-convert since the release of 1.29 (Which, as several people have stated in this thread, has some historical backing to it).
One thing that could be an option to consider with regards to the expel minorities feature without going into actual pops that Johan discussed is to consider giving provinces a minority/majority culture and/or religion, not too different from what MEIOU implements (Though with a proper interface and not using province modifiers, of course). This was also previously mentioned by another user, though I disagree on the proposed implementation.
I detailed an approximate way of how this could potentially be handled about a year ago, which I'll shamelessly drop here in case somebody (Maybe Johan, since he is giving it a second go currently) wants to take a look at it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...cultures-and-religions.1154538/#post-25184313
One thing that could be an option to consider with regards to the expel minorities feature without going into actual pops that Johan discussed is to consider giving provinces a minority/majority culture and/or religion, not too different from what MEIOU implements (Though with a proper interface and not using province modifiers, of course). This was also previously mentioned by another user, though I disagree on the proposed implementation.
I detailed an approximate way of how this could potentially be handled about a year ago, which I'll shamelessly drop here in case somebody (Maybe Johan, since he is giving it a second go currently) wants to take a look at it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...cultures-and-religions.1154538/#post-25184313
We can have dynamic population adding pie charts for culture and religions, for Pops i think is too late
I don't think making a list of provinces that are valid for minority expulsion would be a big rework. A simple
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can_expel_minority = yesThis is not a solution, is a removing a feature, and it was a paid feature.If they want remove that feature and adding other (interesting) feature for GC owners, for me will be good solution also
What is it that you guys actually want? To have an option to ahistorically expell minorities from any and all province in the world, but somehow keep the historical cultural layout? I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation.
The problem is that this feature has deep bad design from the beginning
1 - First mistake, adding a feature for expelling minorities when is impossible represent minorities in this game because the system only allows you to have one culture and religon in each province. Before introducing expelling minorities feature you must have a game design that allows you to represent the minorities
2 -The expelling minorities mechanich is ahistorical in the way it works in the game, in eu4 timeline Spain expelled minorities two times, with Fernando and Isabel (jews) and with Felipe III (moors) and the minorities were kicked out off Spain, they didnt put them in a ship and send them to colonize the new world, like is happening in the game since they introduced this feature
When Fernando and Isabel expelled jews it was very bad for economy and income tax,because the better economist advisors were jews, when Felipe III expelled moors it was a dramatical hit on the production because they were the workforce who did the hard work in the fields and in the livestock.
You cant represent this things in the game because the feature was introduced when the game design is not ready to represent this, so at the end we have a crazy ahistorical nonsense expelling minorities feature.
Is for that i say that repair this feature needs lot off work, for start you need pie charts for religion and culture in every province, is the only way for represent minorities without introducing Pops
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On the topic of pops, I'd rather have a simple majority/minority system. Much easier to have it somewhat historical than trying to figure out numbers and percentages.
It'd let the game show some of the ethnic tension and interplay that was very prevalent before nation states became a thing. The Ottomans empire is a great example of this,
the greeks and other christians didn't dissapear when the turks came. Anatolia would look like a patchwork of religion and cultures, making the dhimmi estate very important.
It'd let the game show some of the ethnic tension and interplay that was very prevalent before nation states became a thing. The Ottomans empire is a great example of this,
the greeks and other christians didn't dissapear when the turks came. Anatolia would look like a patchwork of religion and cultures, making the dhimmi estate very important.
That's what I was saying. If you use this feature past its historical usage, you're gonna get ahistorical result.
And I don't think it's the design that is the problem, rather the fact that people want to squeeze every cent they invested in a DLC, thus creating implausible situations. I should know, I pause the game every time my diplomat returns home, not to waste a single day
The design is a problem because it is a totally ahistorical mechanic that you are strongly incentivized to use.
It's worth noting that there are people who variously:And I don't think it's the design that is the problem, rather the fact that people want to squeeze every cent they invested in a DLC, thus creating implausible situations. I should know, I pause the game every time my diplomat returns home, not to waste a single day
- bought GC, then turned it off because of what this mechanic does
- didn't buy GC because of what this mechanic does
- bought GC and hold their noses and keep it turned on despite this mechanic, but would cheerfully see this mechanic be ripped out without replacement because they effectively perceive it as being worth less than zero dollars.
Personally, I think that the suggestion of just replacing the 'expel minorities' feature with a new cool feature would probably be the best idea. I don't see any real benefit to using it as proposed here - I don't really care about a CN's development and I certainly don't want to lose my own to pump up theirs. It also doesn't fix the fact that colonies will be full of a mishmash of different cultures and religions.
Maybe just take another look at Golden Century and see if there was something else you could draw from for inspiration? Heck, it doesn't even need to be colonial based, in my opinion. It could be centered on Personal Unions or something, who knows!
Maybe just take another look at Golden Century and see if there was something else you could draw from for inspiration? Heck, it doesn't even need to be colonial based, in my opinion. It could be centered on Personal Unions or something, who knows!
Everything you do in this game is ahistorical after day 1. I find it humorous that the same people who argue for world conquest as a legitimate playstyle also seem to have issues with mechanics that can be used ahistorically. Especially when said historical nature is totally reliant on national policies (which can be good, bad, or indifferent for the nation involved), not things that are more applicable to every nation like economics or technology.
Those same people, would it make them happy if the AI wouldn't use the mechanic, or they need an additional incentive not use it themselves?
While you have a point, problem is that:
- It is usually used ahistorically since day one in immersion breaking way. Spain deports Italians and Dutch since start, using America as a gulag.
- AI uses it. You may ignore it, but AI will still do it and it is always immersion breaking.
- Lastly, it derives from historical plausibility that is crucial to the game. Yes, alt-history and WC are fantasy, but you build them up from proper believable historical setup.
- Spain, one of the major criminals with expel minorities, didn't expel anyone to America. And America wasn't diverse (with non-Americans) from getgo. It could happen? Yes. But it being set up to always happen as default, messing up with suspension of disbelief that we have when playing game. It doesn't immerse (in immersion pack), it does the opposite effect. And because AI uses it you will see it happening all the time regardless of whom you play.
Gc was inspired in colonial nations, maybe a new idea about naval rework can be good.One problem that have colonial nations and other nations is that they never build enought transport ships.Removing expelling minorities and adding something like this can be interesting
Naval Rework
Dividing ships in three kinds of war boats: heavy, lights and galleys
Adding a new category off ships, Merchant ships, for send to trade nodes and allow that boats to be used as a transport ships
With this change I think can be solved countries don’t have enough naval limit to build transport ships and historically is more accurate, almost all the names for transport ships in eu4 were merchant ships at that time
Also Merchant ships can have some interactions with Burghers estate
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If it works then Paradox can do it a free feature like they did with other paid features