Expel Minorities - Changes

Expel Minorities - Changes

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Lightwell

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Expelling minorities will changed in the following way.
- It will no longer change religion and culture of the origin.

So, what's the point of expelling the minorities, exactly? I mean, if this change is made, the only use I see for the mechanic will be to reduce development, or for adding some sort of "Slave trade" modifier in the future to let dev from those provinces all be counted towards Diplomatic Development.
 

zdlugasz

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So, what's the point of expelling the minorities, exactly? I mean, if this change is made, the only use I see for the mechanic will be to reduce development, or for adding some sort of "Slave trade" modifier in the future to let dev from those provinces all be counted towards Diplomatic Development.

I am also missing the point here. What will change in addition to decreased development?
 

Wolfsgeist

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I guess more development in the target province and faster colonization. Which is somewhat lackluster I think. IMHO the root province should also get a modifier ala "Recently expelled minorities" which would give Missionary Strength and Reduced Culture Conversion Cost for a while, so you can, you know, get rid of those minorities if you so choose. Otherwise expelling minorities doesn't help me get that Religious Unity that I wanted to begin with.
 

Josar

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I am sure this helps the immersion, but it seems like there is no reason to expel minorities now as it; no longer helps the stability of your country, and simply moves development around, and to a vassal no less.

So just what is the practical benefit of doing it now?
 

Dongerino

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If we ever do an EU5, and I work on it, I definitely want pops. I personally prefer the Imperator ones over the V2, as its easier for abstraction, especially when you got vague data.
This is the best thing I've read all week.
 

Dongerino

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Maybe there should be a temporary modifier added to the province being expelled from that would give increased missionary strength and reduced culture conversion? The way I see it now, there isn't actually much reason to do it.

EDIT: That would actually just be pretty much the old system but worse. Maybe it should give unrest reduction instead.
 

Lightwell

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Maybe there should be a temporary modifier added to the province being expelled from that would give increased missionary strength and reduced culture conversion? The way I see it now, there isn't actually much reason to do it.

That just brings us back to the original problem. You can't liberate Morocco if there aren't any Moroccans.
 

Jake1111

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The whole expel minority thing is always going to be ahistorical because each province is treated as if it is 100% the same religion and culture.

If someday (EU 5) each province was instead set at various percentages then expelling minorities could make sense, because instead of changing Tangiers from Morrocan and Sunni to Portugese and Catholic, instead it would maybe make 10% change for each.

Cultural conversion and missionaries would gradually shift the percentages. I'd do it so that initially the change is faster (as missionaries convert those who just don't care that much) but slows down over time (as the remaining population to convert is more pious). Thus, if Catholic Spain converts Granada, but just barely, it can easily revert back (particularly if there is some random shifting each year in the percentages).

So, where expelling minorities would come into play would be to get that last stubborn 10 or 20% of the population changed.
 

Mindel

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If we ever do an EU5, and I work on it, I definitely want pops

If?

As if... Paradox would not continue on with its hugely successful flagship series?

Just remember what you said when EU5 does come around.
 
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Commonblob

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I guess more development in the target province and faster colonization. Which is somewhat lackluster I think.

Yeah but it doesn't cost any mana anymore. At just the cost of shifting development to your CN, you are increasing colonization speed. The AI isn't going to expel minorities often anymore, so the player has the option of massively outpacing AI colonizers.
 

RobbieAB

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Can your low dev farmlands province with a university now be used to feed dev to tropical mountain provinces in your destination?
 

Josar

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Yeah but it doesn't cost any mana anymore. At just the cost of shifting development to your CN, you are increasing colonization speed. The AI isn't going to expel minorities often anymore, so the player has the option of massively outpacing AI colonizers.
Well it gives them more development, but the actual speed of new settlers seems to be the same. One major weakness of colonialzation is how long it takes, and I think you would be hard pressed to want to sacrifice your own development to a vassal, especially that you can never annex, and takes quite awhile to reach you in case of war.
 

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The whole expel minority thing is always going to be ahistorical because each province is treated as if it is 100% the same religion and culture.

If someday (EU 5) each province was instead set at various percentages then expelling minorities could make sense, because instead of changing Tangiers from Morrocan and Sunni to Portugese and Catholic, instead it would maybe make 10% change for each.

Cultural conversion and missionaries would gradually shift the percentages. I'd do it so that initially the change is faster (as missionaries convert those who just don't care that much) but slows down over time (as the remaining population to convert is more pious). Thus, if Catholic Spain converts Granada, but just barely, it can easily revert back (particularly if there is some random shifting each year in the percentages).

So, where expelling minorities would come into play would be to get that last stubborn 10 or 20% of the population changed.

Yeah that's the point

On the other hand, expelling minorities in real history does not work as in the game, when Spain did it with Jews and moors, they were expelled from Spain to North Africa, they were not sent to colonize the new world.
 

Cancerofthehead

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I am sure this helps the immersion, but it seems like there is no reason to expel minorities now as it; no longer helps the stability of your country, and simply moves development around, and to a vassal no less.

So just what is the practical benefit of doing it now?

As I understand, cheaper (I expect all cost modifiers to be reduced maintenance) and faster colonies.

Still pretty terrible, but it is better as an unused mechanic becuase it sucks than a viable one.
 

BurnC

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You might as well remove the feature as the changes make it completely useless. So, my understanding you can't remove a feature cause was part of a DLC, but you can make it useless, that won't affect your initial idea... That's ridiculous on my opinion.
I'm against the change on the mechanic, on my opinion was one of the very few things included in the DLC that i used.

It is ahistorical? Yes, but then again so many other stuff on EU4 is.
Does it remove any traces of wrong culture country's? Yes, but so does the change culture button, should we remove that too?

The problem was never this mechanic, was, in my opinion, a completely outdated colony system that needed a major update. (And the big opportunity to do it was GC)

I'm very disappointed with the decision.
 

Josar

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As I understand, cheaper (I expect all cost modifiers to be reduced maintenance) and faster colonies.

Still pretty terrible, but it is better as an unused mechanic becuase it sucks than a viable one.
The point of a mechanic is to be useful, now it is worse it is pointless. Granted I do not colonize that much anyway, because the whole colonialzation thing is lackluster. But the mechanic was useful when you were colonizing. All this just to keep a few areas from changing culture?
 

Tricubus

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  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
This still doesn't fix the problem of Sunni Moroccan Brazil and Caribbean.