Expeditionary/Volunteer forces!

[Zaku]

My op about this replied to a guy who lost his mind about Japan the intervention and claimed it was a "joke"
While I understand that this is a highly improbable scenario, but it is possible so I don't think that it is such a huge deal that Japan sends a few disivisons to support a civil war. It is definitely inside the supply capacity of the Imperial Navy. Gameplay wise I think Japan is a fascist nation(or at least extremely right wing) so supporting a potential ally in Europe is not completely unbeliveable IMO.
He also complained about Germany sending 2 divisions, when in reality they sent 16000 men, so the number is more or less plausible. (by comparison Italians sent 75000)

Just as I said it several times: the game mechanic is fine this is a balance issue. Japan shouldn't send 4 divsions every game, but the AI or the player should be able to if they decide that way. Just give them a bigger impact on the world tension so that you need to decide carefully if it's worth it.

 

[Axe99]

My op about this replied to a guy who lost his mind about Japan the intervention and claimed it was a "joke"
While I understand that this is a highly improbable scenario, but it is possible so I don't think that it is such a huge deal that Japan sends a few disivisons to support a civil war. It is definitely inside the supply capacity of the Imperial Navy.
He also complained about Germany sending 2 divisions, when in reality they sent 16000 men, so the number is more or less plausible. (by comparison Italians sent 75000)

Just as I said it several times: the game mechanic is fine this is a balance issue. Japan shouldn't send 4 divsions every game, but the AI or the player should be able to if they decide that way. Just give them a bigger impact on the world tension so that you need to decide carefully if it's worth it.

Well, in the context of historical mode being selected (which it was in this game), calling 4 Japanese divisions in the SCW 'a joke' isn't necessarily inappropriate (although not the way I'd put it). In a historically plausible SCW that started in March 1936 (I'm pretty sure that's when this one kicked off, at least close to there), there's just no sensible reason for Japan to be interested in being involved. Now, if the Japanese sent a few divisions to a civil war in China or Siam - that's another thing entirely - but Spain makes no sense on a number of levels. As you say, though, I'm sure it's just a 'general' mechanic that they haven't fully balanced yet - but it is important to make it make sense why Japan (or anyone) would get involved in a Civil War. At this stage, Japan wasn't in the Axis (I'm fairly sure, pretty sure Germany had only brought Italy in, in the stream), so them sending four divisions to Spain is fairly random. PDS'll sort it, I'm sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if HoI4 took a few patches before some of these finer details are a bit more plausible.

As an aside - I'm fairly sure 16K men is closer to one division than two (if you're counting non-combatants, which the 16K likely does), although I'm not full-bottle on German divisional structure in 1936 (or most other times ) so apologies if I'm off the mark here.

 

[FOARP]

FOARP, I've always respected you because you generally get China right....

Here is a list of everything wrong with Japanese intervention in Spain.

1. Europeans and the Spanish would never allow it.

Division level intervention by Japan in the European theater would not be tolerated. The Nationalists in Spain were somewhat fascist but mostly Catholic. A mostly Catholic uprising has no problem with two batallions of German Christians or 4 divisions of Italian Catholics is fine. 4 divisions of Japanese buddhists/shintoists fighting on behalf of a Catholic conservative movement would not work. The Republicans got in enough trouble by being labelled as stooges of the Soviets. Japan It would risk discrediting the Nationalist credentials.

The Spanish Nationalists made substantial use of Moroccan Muslim soldiers during the war, so I'm not sure this is correct.

2. Fighting effectiveness would be a lot lower than a "Japanese division"

Outside supplies were important in SCW because both sides were scraping the bottom of the barrel when it came to guns, ammunition, uniforms etc. They could not supply themselves adequately much less large foreign formations.

If any country at the time was expert at making do with poor supplies, it was Japan. Japan certainly had the shipping necessary to achieve this - the requests that Japan deploy an army corps to the Western Front in WW1 certainly show that it was thought feasible at the time.

3. Supply would be impossible.

In the case of the other European countries, they all had a reason to be sending ships to Spain. They'd always traded with Spain. They weren't circumventing the blockade, they were sending food and clothing and clocks... whatever goods they traded before.

Japan did not have a massive amount of bilateral trade with Spain in 1935. Certainly not enough to camouflage large arms shipments.

That even goes to the idea that they could send large arms shipments, which they couldn't. Japan cannot sail past Singapore, Suez, and Gibraltar to help Spain.

From the DD we know that it takes 2 weeks to deploy into or out of a civil war. Wow... You can sail 80,000 troops around the world in 2 weeks. Realism right there.

Japan has no experience in 1936 of running a vast overseas empire or su

The DD says two weeks but I suspect it was written in haste and may not be correct. Even if it is, this is merely a balancing issue.

I can't see why you believe that Japan could not send arms to Spain - they traded arms in South America, for example, and Spain would not be much further. The Republicans received material support from friendly states like Mexico in the form of rifles and other materiel as well.

It's questionable whether that much camouflage was needed - I doubt it mattered much whether the country concerned traded much with Spain before the war.

My op about this replied to a guy who lost his mind about Japan the intervention and claimed it was a "joke"
While I understand that this is a highly improbable scenario, but it is possible so I don't think that it is such a huge deal that Japan sends a few disivisons to support a civil war. It is definitely inside the supply capacity of the Imperial Navy. Gameplay wise I think Japan is a fascist nation(or at least extremely right wing) so supporting a potential ally in Europe is not completely unbeliveable IMO.
He also complained about Germany sending 2 divisions, when in reality they sent 16000 men, so the number is more or less plausible. (by comparison Italians sent 75000)

Just as I said it several times: the game mechanic is fine this is a balance issue. Japan shouldn't send 4 divsions every game, but the AI or the player should be able to if they decide that way. Just give them a bigger impact on the world tension so that you need to decide carefully if it's worth it.

Agreed.

 

[Zaku]

Well, in the context of historical mode being selected (which it was in this game), calling 4 Japanese divisions in the SCW 'a joke' isn't necessarily inappropriate (although not the way I'd put it). In a historically plausible SCW that started in March 1936 (I'm pretty sure that's when this one kicked off, at least close to there), there's just no sensible reason for Japan to be interested in being involved. Now, if the Japanese sent a few divisions to a civil war in China or Siam - that's another thing entirely - but Spain makes no sense on a number of levels. As you say, though, I'm sure it's just a 'general' mechanic that they haven't fully balanced yet - but it is important to make it make sense why Japan (or anyone) would get involved in a Civil War. At this stage, Japan wasn't in the Axis (I'm fairly sure, pretty sure Germany had only brought Italy in, in the stream), so them sending four divisions to Spain is fairly random. PDS'll sort it, I'm sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if HoI4 took a few patches before some of these finer details are a bit more plausible.

I think the problem is that most people misunderstand the "historical mode". That doesn't mean that the AI will always do the historical decisions. It only means that the AI will take the historical National Focuses(if it can, if not it will deviate even in that)

For the reasons: Japan could be looking for a trade partner in Europe for rare materials like tungsten, or they want to have friendly bases in Europe. I assume you get trade relations with the supported nation.

As an aside - I'm fairly sure 16K men is closer to one division than two (if you're counting non-combatants, which the 16K likely does), although I'm not full-bottle on German divisional structure in 1936 (or most other times ) so apologies if I'm off the mark here.

I think a basic inf division in HOI4 has 10K men in it, but even if it has 15K 2 divisions is not an unbeliveable amount if we consider what Italy sent to the war.

 

[Axe99]

I think the problem is that most people misunderstand the "historical mode". That doesn't mean that the AI will always do the historical decisions. It only means that the AI will take the historical National Focuses(if it can, if not it will deviate even in that)

For the reasons: Japan could be looking for a trade partner in Europe for rare materials like tungsten, or they want to have friendly bases in Europe. I assume you get trade relations with the supported nation.

If there's a sensible reason for it, it's all good - there was no mention of any benefit to being in a civil war beyond military experience, but if there was something it could get from it that makes it a reasonable thing for them to do, I wouldn't mind. A strategy game is always better when the AI doesn't go wasting its resources on things it won't benefit from.

II think a basic inf division in HOI4 has 10K men in it, but even if it has 15K 2 divisions is not an unbeliveable amount if we consider what Italy sent to the war.

Aye, same in HoI3, and I think 2 and 1, but I'm pretty sure HoI only tracks combatants - we don't need any manpower at all for the supply chains, cooks, drivers and what-have-you - so comparing HoI troop counts with actual troop counts from the conflict isn't a straight 1:1 comparison - ie, a 10K 'HoI' division is likely to represent a division that in the real world might have around 15K people, but they don't worry about counting the support staff. I'm pretty sure of this, but not 100%.

As for whether it's plausible, I'd like to see the size of the contribution have an impact on WT (it might already, but I couldn't tell from the stream) - so a Germany that sends 5000 men (better to measure impact in men than divisions) might raise it by a third of a Germany that sends 15,000. Do this, and you can remove the cap on contributions altogether - if Germany wants to roll the dice and send 10 divisions they can, but the impact on WT might make life harder for them.

 

[FOARP]

Aye, same in HoI3, and I think 2 and 1, but I'm pretty sure HoI only tracks combatants - we don't need any manpower at all for the supply chains, cooks, drivers and what-have-you - so comparing HoI troop counts with actual troop counts from the conflict isn't a straight 1:1 comparison - ie, a 10K 'HoI' division is likely to represent a division that in the real world might have around 15K people, but they don't worry about counting the support staff. I'm pretty sure of this, but not 100%.

As for whether it's plausible, I'd like to see the size of the contribution have an impact on WT (it might already, but I couldn't tell from the stream) - so a Germany that sends 5000 men (better to measure impact in men than divisions) might raise it by a third of a Germany that sends 15,000. Do this, and you can remove the cap on contributions altogether - if Germany wants to roll the dice and send 10 divisions they can, but the impact on WT might make life harder for them.

Hmm . . . I'm not so sure about a mechanic that effectively allows you to send the entire Wehrmacht as "volunteers", though I'll admit that China did pretty much this in Korea.

From a sheer gameplay point of view, it makes sense to have a cap to avoid mass deployments to minor conflicts through the Volunteer mechanism as this would avoid 1) having to go through trial-and-error to see how many troops you can deploy and 2) insta-winning minor conflicts with overwhelming force. Mass deployments can still be done if you are at war, of course.

 

[Porkman]

The Spanish Nationalists made substantial use of Moroccan Muslim soldiers during the war, so I'm not sure this is correct.

Who were very clearly social inferiors and under the command of Catholic officers. Autonomous Japanese divisions would be different.

If any country at the time was expert at making do with poor supplies, it was Japan. Japan certainly had the shipping necessary to achieve this - the requests that Japan deploy an army corps to the Western Front in WW1 certainly show that it was thought feasible at the time.

The Western Front in 1917 was at the end of an entire infrastructure chain that was built to support large formations of troops engaged in static warfare. There was a fire hose of military supplies headed towards that front and what they needed was men to use it since casualties were so high.

Such conditions do not exist in Spain in 1936.

The DD says two weeks but I suspect it was written in haste and may not be correct. Even if it is, this is merely a balancing issue.

It would be better if this varied with distance and you had to lose the troops out of the OOB during travel time.

I can't see why you believe that Japan could not send arms to Spain - they traded arms in South America, for example, and Spain would not be much further. The Republicans received material support from friendly states like Mexico in the form of rifles and other materiel as well.

I don't mind arms to Spain. If its Japan sending lend lease... that's at least plausible. And South America connects with the Pacific which is a straight shot across the Ocean for Japan.
I object to Japan sending an army corps (which is what 4 divisions is) to Spain (a country they have no interests in) to operate autonomously at full effectiveness from the other side of the Earth.

I can't wait to watch as the Chinese civil war is won by 4 American Divisions, 4 British ones, 4 French ones, fighting against 12 Soviet Divisions....

It's questionable whether that much camouflage was needed - I doubt it mattered much whether the country concerned traded much with Spain before the war.

This was an issue. I really wish I knew who the experts on the Spanish Civil war on the board were so they could do a point by point refutation of how ridiculous Japanese intervention would be.

 

[FOARP]

Who were very clearly social inferiors and under the command of Catholic officers. Autonomous Japanese divisions would be different.

Actually the Regulares also had Muslim officers, including at least one division-commander.

The Western Front in 1917 was at the end of an entire infrastructure chain that was built to support large formations of troops engaged in static warfare. There was a fire hose of military supplies headed towards that front and what they needed was men to use it since casualties were so high.

Such conditions do not exist in Spain in 1936.

So the SCW wasn't WW1? You're not pointing out the deal-breaker here.

It would be better if this varied with distance and you had to lose the troops out of the OOB during travel time.

The travel time should definitely vary with distance (in fact, it may actually do so since the number of days required pops up in a dialogue rather than being fixed text). The cap could also vary with distance though this might be a bit over-complicated. I think the troops actually do disappear from your OOB during transit.

I don't mind arms to Spain. If its Japan sending lend lease... that's at least plausible. And South America connects with the Pacific which is a straight shot across the Ocean for Japan.
I object to Japan sending an army corps (which is what 4 divisions is) to Spain (a country they have no interests in) to operate autonomously at full effectiveness from the other side of the Earth.

I can't wait to watch as the Chinese civil war is won by 4 American Divisions, 4 British ones, 4 French ones, fighting against 12 Soviet Divisions....

There's a number of mechanisms which we are told about that may prevent this:

1) Volunteers can't be sent whilst you are at war.

2) Democracies are very limited in when they can send volunteers.

3) World tension has to be sufficiently high.​

But even if the scenario you describe does happen, limiting it is just a case of game-balance, and does not mean the mechanism itself is faulty.

PS - let's look at the dialogue box:

We're told about three mechanisms here that limit volunteers:

1) WT.

2) Transport ships required.

3) How many divisions you have.​

It may be possible also to add a hard-cap to this so no more than 4 divisions can be sent anywhere, but even these factors are, balanced properly, sufficient to stop whacky outcomes.

 

[Porkman]

Actually the Regulares also had Muslim officers, including at least one division-commander.



So the SCW wasn't WW1? You're not pointing out the deal-breaker here.

The deal breaker is that there was a huge system of active military supply in place that foreign forces could be slotted into.

In the SCW, that system did not exist. The two sides were fighting using the leftovers from Spain's pre war arms industy + whatever came from outside.

In WW1, Japanese troops could have been supplied fully from the system that already existed in France.

In the SCW, that was not possible.

 

[FOARP]

The deal breaker is that there was a huge system of active military supply in place that foreign forces could be slotted into.

In the SCW, that system did not exist. The two sides were fighting using the leftovers from Spain's pre war arms industy + whatever came from outside.

In WW1, Japanese troops could have been supplied fully from the system that already existed in France.

In the SCW, that was not possible.

The fact that this system existed in WW1 surely indicates that it could be in 1936. Again, I'm not seeing the deal-breaker here.

This was an issue. I really wish I knew who the experts on the Spanish Civil war on the board were so they could do a point by point refutation of how ridiculous Japanese intervention would be.

I think we've raised enough examples of why this wouldn't be as crazy or "stupid" as some people here seem to assume. To re-cap, these include:

1) Russia's deployment of a massive fleet all the way round the world to the area of Japan via the Cape of Good Hope in 1904/5 despite hostility towards the UK.

2) Japan's deployment of forces to the Mediterranean and the planned deployment of an army corps to Europe in WW1.

3) US volunteers in China - the opposite side of the Earth to the US.
​

As a side bar, I think you'd be interested to know that a very small number of Chinese volunteers fought on the Republican side - Antony Beavor mentions one of them in history of the war. I've never seen anything more said about them and perhaps nothing is really known except that they were there. I know Mao spoke out in support of the Republicans (not so sure what the KMT attitude was though) but obvious reasons there was nothing in the way of material support except, perhaps, these few volunteers.

EDIT: This article on the volunteers does shed some more light on them.

 

[Porkman]

The fact that this system existed in WW1 surely indicates that it could be in 1936. Again, I'm not seeing the deal-breaker here.

In WW1, the system was supplying a static front with the UK and France... The biggest industrial powers of the world behind the US... sending out a firehose of supplies directly over land and rails. Can Nationalist Spain or Japan do that?

No they cannot.

 

[FOARP]

In WW1, the system was supplying a static front with the UK and France... The biggest industrial powers of the world behind the US... sending out a firehose of supplies directly over land and rails. Can Nationalist Spain or Japan do that?

No they cannot.

That's a bit of a exaggeration of their weakness, and one you don't cite any evidence in support of. It would be a significant effort, sure, but the shipping needed wouldn't be beyond their capacity (6 million tons+ of available shipping).

EDIT: We seem to have got wrapped up in a bit of a tangle over something we essentially agree about anyway (i.e., it's a bit odd to have four divisions of Japanese volunteers sent to the Spanish Civil War). At heart what we see here is a great mechanism, one that reproduces the fun you could have with the volunteer mechanism in HOI1 whilst trying to limit the exploits you could pull off in HOI1 as well.

The video also threw up some other oddities (e.g., Xinjiang insta-joining the Comintern) but I think you'll agree that these, too, are just balancing issues that will eventually be addressed.

 

[Zaku]

Can Nationalist Spain or Japan do that?

No they cannot.

Why? Nat. Spain had 600K men strong army in the SCW. Even if it was supplied with outside help the fact still remains. Spain still produced small arms and supplies throughout the SCW.
Also Japan operated several millions of men overseas. How come they can's supply 40K? You still didn't made any other point then "it was impossible".

 

[Porkman]

That's a bit of a exaggeration of their weakness, and one you don't cite any evidence in support of. It would be a significant effort, sure, but the shipping needed wouldn't be beyond their capacity (6 million tons+ of available shipping).

EDIT: We seem to have got wrapped up in a bit of a tangle over something we essentially agree about anyway (i.e., it's a bit odd to have four divisions of Japanese volunteers sent to the Spanish Civil War). At heart what we see here is a great mechanism, one that reproduces the fun you could have with the volunteer mechanism in HOI1 whilst trying to limit the exploits you could pull off in HOI1 as well.

I like the mechanism...

My objection isn't towards the mechanism itself. I like the idea.

My objection is that, by neglecting logistics, (which is what the game is doing with no more "military supplies" and "fuel" requirements by troops in the field) it will be abused to ridiculous degree. Four Japanese divisions in Spain ridiculous from a logistical standpoint.

Japan could have done it at ridiculous cost, if they put in a ton of resources and the emperor for some reason demanded access to tapas... But looking at the tooltip, it doesn't look like much resources are going to be needed whether the intervention is from Italy or Japan.

Also, the active tempo of operation on the playthrough was really offputting.

 

[FUregistration]

But in 1936 Japan was not yet allied with fascism. And there was a certain possibility that Germany would side with China. So no, Japan has no motives to help the fascists.

True, but maybe the player wants to make a different approach to the game, one where he knows he wants to please Germany, a fascist Spain on the side of Axis could close Gibraltar, this would have consequences to the British supply in the Indian ocean. Or whatever other reason the player imagines.

Of course, of course. But I believe said restrictions need to be higher. And they must have consequences. If you spend three months proclaiming speeches and having constantly meetings to force your views in one matter, you can't really focus on pressing other matters as well (because your audience will not be focused on your message). All this means that a high degree of interventionism should delay other measures that you want to fulfill as well.

Spot on, agree 100%, the more far-fetched a political move is the more consequences it should have.

The cost of shipping the necessary munitions to Spain would be prohibitive and not something that Japan would ever do.

I find that very hard to believe, I know it wouldn't make much sense for Japan at that time to help fascist Spain, but supplying a couple of divisions isn't that hard... its not like Japan would have to send everything, most supplies they could just buy from a local friendly nation, no need to send them all the way from Japan, only the very specific stuff like munitions and spare parts.

The difference in the level of merchant shipping and the network of bases and support infrastructure for the British Empire vs the Japanese is night and day

Indeed, but that assumes that the player follows a strict realistic path, players can make things different, maybe a player produces 100 convoy ships when the game begins, just so he can venture into crazy things like warfare in Europe.

 

[Porkman]

Why? Nat. Spain had 600K men strong army in the SCW. Even if it was supplied with outside help the fact still remains. Spain still produced small arms and supplies throughout the SCW.
Also Japan operated several millions of men overseas. How come they can's supply 40K? You still didn't made any other point then "it was impossible".

Japan operated 2 million men overseas in 1945. That was their height. Most of those guys were starving.

I wish I had a good online source about the Civil War in Spain that didn't just talk about it in the context of WW2. That conflict, like most Civil wars, was fought with shortages of ammunition, basic supplies, and food. The Italians, for example, supplied 4 divisions of Italian troops and they did it by directly supplying them from Italy. They didn't rely on local supply. (A mechanic that does not exist in game.)

Whatever surplus the Spanish have is going to their own formations, not foreigners.

It's not a case of the foreigners having to pay for it, it's a case of local capacity being vastly inadequate to local needs, much less foreign ones.

The main reason that Japan wouldn't supply troops in Spain would be the long, long, long, long, long, long logistical tail. Longer by orders of magnitude than anything they supplied during WW2.

It is technically possible. It is just so ridiculously expensive that the Japanese state would never do it. It would use a huge proportion of Japan's merchant marine. (which already has commitments supplying troops in Manchuria, the Pacific, Taiwan, and Korea and supplying Japan's resource poor industry)

For Italy or Germany... Spain is very close. I want Japan supplying troops in Spain to be possible... but crippling for Japan. So crippling that Japan should never do it or risk losing in China or wherever else they actually care about.

True, but maybe the player wants to make a different approach to the game, one where he knows he wants to please Germany, a fascist Spain on the side of Axis could close Gibraltar, this would have consequences to the British supply in the Indian ocean. Or whatever other reason the player imagines.


Spot on, agree 100%, the more far-fetched a political move is the more consequences it should have.


I find that very hard to believe, I know it wouldn't make much sense for Japan at that time to help fascist Spain, but supplying a couple of divisions isn't that hard... its not like Japan would have to send everything, most supplies they could just buy from a local friendly nation, no need to send them all the way from Japan, only the very specific stuff like munitions and spare parts.

Indeed, but that assumes that the player follows a strict realistic path, players can make things different, maybe a player produces 100 convoy ships when the game begins, just so he can venture into crazy things like warfare in Europe.

There was not a surplus of military supplies in 1936. Italy and Germany are already using what they are producing or sending it direct to Spain. Japan shipping military supplies to Spain is a lot more plausible than shipping troops and adequate military supplies to keep them in active operations.

 

[Zaku]

Japan operated 2 million men overseas in 1945. That was their height. Most of those guys were starving.

Don't compare the 1945 IJN to the 1936 IJN.

Japan had the capacity to support 40K men in Europe, that is certain. It would be expensive, that is also true. I don't hink it would cripple the japanese economy like you imply, but it would be costing them a fortune yens that's for sure.
My point is not about the price of a expedition, but the possibility of it. It was possible, so I don't see what's the problem with it if it happens once in a while. There should be cost to it in terms of convoys plus the equipment and also in terms of world tension, but that's in the game and only the numbers need balancing.

 

[jamesd]

Yeah, but we are talking about 40K men here, and not a million like the brits had. If Japan supplied 300.000 troops to the SCW then maybe you would have a point here.
I'm 100% sure the japan merchant navy is capable to supply 40k men.

4 Japanese divisions on their early war square TOE would have come to 80,000 before adding in support and logistics troops. The Italians committed 78,000 men for a force that was initially 4 divisions of probably 52,000 men and it quickly shrank down to only 1 fully Italian Division with the others becoming mixed Italian/Spanish units. Even with Italy just a few days away by boat, they had to commit 50% more men than were in the divisions, and couldn't maintain them at full strength. For Japan to operate 4 of their divisions half way around the world would require a substantial base organisation in Spain that the Italians did not need due to the proximity of Italy. I reckon they would have needed to send at least 160,000 men.

 

[Zaku]

4 Japanese divisions on their early war square TOE would have come to 80,000 before adding in support and logistics troops.

I belive one basic Hoi4 infantry Division is 10K men and not 20K as you suggest. I could not find a japanese screenshot, but I found a soviet infantry division which had 9.3K(3*3bats+1 arty) manpower in it. For 20K you would need 5*4, which is not available without spending XP first I belive.
If someone could find info on a Japanese infantry divsion in HOI4 please post it.

I reckon they would have needed to send at least 160,000 men.

But the AI sent 40K(or 80K maximum) and not 160K. I don't see where you got this high number.

 

[Porkman]

I belive one basic Hoi4 infantry Division is 10K men and not 20K as you suggest. I could not find a japanese screenshot, but I found a soviet infantry division which had 9.3K(3*3bats+1 arty) manpower in it. If someone could find info on a Japanese infantry divsion in HOI4 please post it.



But the AI sent 40K and not 160K. I don't see where you got this high number.

The AI sent 4 divisions... If they start with the historical Japanese configuration (which is variable in game some divisions are big, some are small,) They'd have 20,000 each.

Japanese divisions are very large compared to a lot of other nations.