Expeditionary/Volunteer forces!
- Thread starter FOARP
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I just did. Missed the video. Oh this is just crap, what kind of games are they making now? Please reassure me that this wil ONLY happen with the ahistorical options selected? Japan sending 4 divisions - if I didn't know better it sounds like the biggest joke ever. And the German players sending entire divisions too? The game should at least limit them to a couple of brigades at MOST. But that Japan sending troops is so far off I don't know if I should laugh or cry. I so do hope that these things will NEVER be able to happen in a an historical game.
- 6
- 4
And they have said that it is in beta and being balanced, so we breathe in and we breathe out.
I think that the AI/Leader of the war should be able to put forward a battle plan, however a player providing troops should be able to manually control them and not accept the AI plan. This way the AI plans without the support of those troops and the player can help by attacking where and when opportunity presents. Or just agree with the plan and watch the AI stuff things up.
I think that the AI/Leader of the war should be able to put forward a battle plan, however a player providing troops should be able to manually control them and not accept the AI plan. This way the AI plans without the support of those troops and the player can help by attacking where and when opportunity presents. Or just agree with the plan and watch the AI stuff things up.
- 4
Watch the video.
And no, I would not be as scathing as you. The simple fact that something did not happen historically does not mean that it happening in-game is unrealistic. Japan might well have sent "volunteers" to intervene in civil wars, particularly ones in the Asia-Pacific region, particularly if they weren't distracted in China. I think Japan sending volunteers as far away as Spain is a little unlikely, but not impossible (consider US volunteers went to both Spain and China).
Last edited:
- 3
Enough Americans went to Spain to keep 1 battalion in action for less than 2 years (a 2nd battalion briefly existed but was quickly merged due to losses), and only 2 aircraft Groups went to China - and it took 4 years after that war started for them to arrive. The Germans only committed 2 ground battalions to Spain, 1 light panzer and 1 AA, along with 6 squadrons of aircraft. The Italians sent 78,000 men to Spain, originally in 4 divisions, but that was the exception rather than the rule of foreign intervention.
- 5
- 4
I'm not so sure about that. In Spain we have an example of a country that both receive division-sized forces of volunteers (the CTV, the Portuguese Viriatos, the International Brigades) and sent them (the Blue Division).
Casting our net a tiny bit wider, we have the UN command of several hundred thousand men in Korea, as well as the Chinese People's Volunteers who were more than a million strong. A bit more widely and we have the Chinese in Indochina and Vietnam. Wider still and we have the German expeditionary forces in the Finnish civil war.
Don't get me wrong - Japan sending four divisions to Spain seems like a balancing issue or something there should maybe be a distance-check on - I'm just responding to the assertion that this shows the game is "just crap". To my mind, remembering how this worked in HOI1, this is an excellent addition, something that will really improve the game.
- 4
Good heavens, I never knew that - thanks for the info. It prompted me to look up the wiki page on foreign intervention in the SCW. It certainly was a soup with many flavours, but I can't help feeling that the scw has gone from a wasted opportunity in 3 to a shade over-pumped in 4.
In the live stream, didn't the Germans have the option of sending something like a dozen divisions and only chose to send 2?
The creation of the UN and the Korean War made for a complex situation. I'd say that in HOI4 terms, China was at war with the US and its allies rather than just sending volunteer forces to assist North Korea, but that's just my interpretation.
but in the game it's not. He had to select 2 units from his German OOB to send over to Spain.
- 1
- 1
Im slightly concerned at how early the Spanish civil war started. Not historical :O
- 1
I saw a cap of two divisions - he couldn't send more.
It was a complex situation, however, in game terms the deploying of volunteers to an civil war is the more accurate model since the fighting was restricted to the Korea peninsula. In the game, if one country was at war with another, it would be a general war.
- 1
Not the same kind of volunteers. Regarding Spain: one thing is allowing militian-like volunteers to travel, and another one is to deploy (and control) 4 entire divisions with their own equipment. The maximum amount of aid I would find reasonable is a US type intervention in China: "volunteer" planes and officers to train the Chineese.
Overall I think the volunteer system is highly overpowered. I think it needs much higher constraints, and a wider spectrum of interventionism.
- 5
Why is it such a big problem? Why shouldn't the AI support a civil war?
Germany sent 10-16000 men historically, Italy sent 60-70000. I don't see a problem with 2 divisions being sent to the SCW, thats around 20K men.
As for the japanese "volunteers" I also don't see a problem. Why shouldn't the AI try to aquire some land XP in a proxy war? I mean transporting 4 divisions to Spain is not something the navy was incapable to do.
Also selecting "historical" mode only means that the AI will take more or less the historical national focuses. It doesn't mean the game will railroad on the same path every time.
Last edited:
- 6
- 2
I basically agree. At most this is a problem of AI priorities, if it is a problem at all.
- 2
Yep, my biggest issue with the SCW was that the other side got no support at all, so it ended in 3 months.
I would have sent help in Johan's place to show it to those Jerry dogs.
USSR or France should also help Republican Spain.I hope this will be fixed until the release.
- 3
- 1
Japan intervention is completely silly. Japan didn't had a similar ideology, it didn't had diplomatic connection and it lacked interest in the area. And I don't buy the argument of farming XP, because Japan population wouldn't buy it as well.
I believe that the ability to send volunteers far away from your borders should be highly restricted, needing a high political interest on the area.
Example:
One of the following three must be true:
- You have the same ideology (or quite close, like fascism and national-socialism. The international revolution is included here as well)
- You have a very high trade relationship
- Has the modifier "ex-colonial relationship" (one country had colonial possetions/policy inside the other)
The last one would allow US, UK, Germany, Japan and Portugal to intervene in China. Other ex colonial regions can have the same system. Finally, although Russia bullied China as well, I would exclude URSS from the ex-colonialist list.
I believe that the ability to send volunteers far away from your borders should be highly restricted, needing a high political interest on the area.
Example:
One of the following three must be true:
- You have the same ideology (or quite close, like fascism and national-socialism. The international revolution is included here as well)
- You have a very high trade relationship
- Has the modifier "ex-colonial relationship" (one country had colonial possetions/policy inside the other)
The last one would allow US, UK, Germany, Japan and Portugal
to intervene in China. Other ex colonial regions can have the same system. Finally, although Russia bullied China as well, I would exclude URSS from the ex-colonialist list.- 6
URSS should support militarly the Republicans, but only if the communists have enough power. Remember that neither the Democrats nor the Anarchists liked the Russians very much.
And France intervention is definitely not a must. France did not helped at all historically. They were too scared of Communists and Anarchists.
- 1
Yeah but I don't care much about history in a game.
The logical choice when playing as France is to support a republicans, or you will most likely will fight a 2 front war when the Germans come for you.
- 1
- 1