Expeditionary/Volunteer forces!

[FOARP]

I am so stoked to see in todays video what appears to be a controllable force of "volunteers" being sent by Germany to take part in the Spanish Civil war. This is the best feature of HOI1 that was still not yet to be reproduced in another HOI game, and you've finally gone ahead and done it!

Congratulations to @podcat and the gang on what looks to be shaping up to be the best game of the series! This is proof, if proof were needed, that yes, the Devs definitely listen to the discussions on the forum since this is exactly the kind of thing a lot of people have been interested in seeing.

Comments/concerns:

- Japan sends a four division expeditionary force to take part in the SCW. Isn't this a bit far out of their area?

- I'm assuming we can do this in ANY civil war, right?

- There doesn't seem to be a hard-cap for expeditionary forces. I'm guessing the world-tension increase is the controlling factor that stops you redeploying the entire Wehrmacht to Spain, right?

- The SCW seems to finish pretty quickly.
​

Like I said, it looks like it's going to be awesome!

 

[Sleight of Hand]

To add to this:

- Can air and naval forces be used in this fashion, too?

 

[Kydax]

It's not Wermacht, it's local german-speaking self-defense forces. It's not german panzers, these panzers were seized from military depots in Bilbo.

 

[Vidkjaer]

I am so stoked to see in todays video what appears to be a controllable force of "volunteers" being sent by Germany to take part in the Spanish Civil war. This is the best feature of HOI1 that was still not yet to be reproduced in another HOI game and you've finally gone ahead and done it!

Congratulations to @podcat and the gang on what looks to be shaping up to be the best game of the series! This is proof, if proof were needed, that yes, the Devs definitely listen to the discussions on the forum since this is exactly the kind of thing a lot of people have been interested in seeing.

Comments/concerns:

- Japan sends a four division expeditionary force to take part in the SCW. Isn't this a bit far out of their area?

- I'm assuming we can do this in ANY civil war, right?

- There doesn't seem to be a hard-cap for expeditionary forces. I'm guessing the world-tension increase is the controlling factor that stops you redeploying the entire Wehrmacht to Spain, right?

- The SCW seems to finish pretty quickly.
​

Like I said, it looks like it's going to be awesome!

Japans sends volunteers, not expeditionary forces.
It is my understanding that you cannot do that in any civil war. Only if one of the sides is your ideology. In the DD on civil wars there was initiated a civil war between communism and democracy. Germany would not be able to send voluteers to this civil war. Which side would they fight on if Germany is fascist?

There is a hardcap for number of divisions you can send. In the video the dialog cleary says that the player is limited to 2 divisions (calculated form his total number of division).
I am concerned there can be an exploit here? As Germany you can make a copy of the existing infantry template. Remove all but one battalion with no cost to army experience and spam a lot of 1 battalion divisions. That would make you able to send more divisions to Spain and here you of course choose 3 brigade divisions to send. But more divisions would properbly also raise WT a lot more.
I would suggest that the amount of WT generated is calculated as number of soldiers and not divisions. Thereby a player could send more divisions with fewer battalions and stretch the battlefield.
@podcat , could this be an exploit?

Germany originally also sended planes, but i guess that is represented by doing lendlease to Nationalist Spain. I wonder why the player didnt do that in the video?

Oh, and i am pleased to see the new airplane GUI. Makes more sense to do small popup Windows that you can drag around as you wish.

 

[FOARP]

It's not Wermacht, it's local german-speaking self-defense forces. It's not german panzers, these panzers were seized from military depots in Bilbo.

Phew, glad we've sorted that out. Hey, by the way, do you know when the wallet inspector's going to come back? You see, I kind of need my wallet . . .

 

[jamesd]

I was quite concerned with this - the Japanese sending any troops to the SCW is questionable let alone 4 divisions and the minimum contribution the Germans could send was 2 divisions which was also way over the top. German ground combat forces actually sent to the SCW amounted to about 2 battalions - 1 of light tanks and one of AA. They also sent a number of planes but none were sent in the streamed game (not sure if its not possible or the player chose not to).

 

[SpartanV15]

-I just quickly skimmed through the video but Japan being that far from the conflict and sending volunteers does seem a little odd imo. What modifiers/conditions are in place when sending volunteers? Maybe historical events can fire up for nations who actually sent volunteers . EX: Germany and Italy get an event to form the Condor legion and C.T.V and send to Spain or not get involved at all. Same goes for International Brigades from the various countries.

- My guess is that there is a limit/cap for how many volunteers you can send, otherwise might as well make a declaration of war in support of one nation if youre going to commit the bulk of your armed forces lol.

- Yea i noticed that they took the north of Spain pretty quick and im pretty sure historically it wasnt that easy and many troops were fighting there

-Im excited for the expeditionary force and volunteer options, but do you get full control of your troops that you sent or can you give control to the target nation? For instance lets say i send a volunteer force and dont want to control them can i just view their progress in the theater of war they were sent to?

 

[Lifthrasil]

It's not Wermacht, it's local german-speaking self-defense forces. It's not german panzers, these panzers were seized from military depots in Bilbo.

Ze patriotic germano-spaniards bought ze panzers privately in their local weapons shop. zere is nozing suspicious about zis ät all!

 

[FOARP]

Japans sends volunteers, not expeditionary forces.

I use the terms interchangeably.

It is my understanding that you cannot do that in any civil war. Only if one of the sides is your ideology. In the DD on civil wars there was initiated a civil war between communism and democracy. Germany would not be able to send voluteers to this civil war. Which side would they fight on if Germany is fascist?

We heard something about the third side in a civil war being bale to align with one of the two sides (i.e., communists with democrats) though I'm not sure how this works.

There is a hardcap for number of divisions you can send. In the video the dialog cleary says that the player is limited to 2 divisions (calculated form his total number of division).

Hadn't seen that - thanks for pointing it out. Hmm . . . we see a total of 30 divisions for Germany, so two divisions is less than ten percent.

I am concerned there can be an exploit here? As Germany you can make a copy of the existing infantry template. Remove all but one battalion with no cost to army experience and spam a lot of 1 battalion divisions. That would make you able to send more divisions to Spain and here you of course choose 3 brigade divisions to send. But more divisions would properbly also raise WT a lot more.
I would suggest that the amount of WT generated is calculated as number of soldiers and not divisions. Thereby a player could send more divisions with fewer battalions and stretch the battlefield.
@podcat , could this be an exploit?

Hopefully they'll fix this if its an issue - it should really be calculated based on troop numbers.

 

[Haresus]

Can we send planes instead of land forces? Like the Legion Condor.

 

[Vidkjaer]

Can we send planes instead of land forces? Like the Legion Condor.

You can send planes by lendlease, but you will not get them back after the war - unless NS sends them back by lendlease. Either as a one time shipment or as a percentage of your monthly production - unless this has changed.

 

[FOARP]

Can we send planes instead of land forces? Like the Legion Condor.

Yeah, that the dialogue only showed land-forces, so are land forces all that can be sent?

 

[Haresus]

You can send planes by lendlease, but you will not get them back after the war - unless NS sends them back by lendlease. Either as a one time shipment or as a percentage of your monthly production - unless this has changed.

Well, that is pretty bad. Should be fixed somehow.

 

[Secret Master]

Well, that is pretty bad. Should be fixed somehow.

Senator Robert Taft: "Lending war equipment is a good deal like lending chewing gum. You don't want it back."

 

[Haresus]

Senator Robert Taft: "Lending war equipment is a good deal like lending chewing gum. You don't want it back."

I am pretty sure that Germany wanted the Condor Legion back.

 

[jamesd]

I am pretty sure that Germany wanted the Condor Legion back.

There weren't that many planes so whether they came back or not wasn't the point - in game terms it should be all about earning air warfare experience so that the Germans can create upgraded variants of the Ju 87 & Bf 109.

 

[Caesar15]

I use the terms interchangeably.

You shouldn't. They're two different things afterall.

 

[Axe99]

The Civil War mechanics, and controlling volunteer forces, do look great . Only concern was that I didn't see any means for the Spanish AI to coordinate with a player's actions (ie, how do we stop multiple volunteer forces being headless chooks while the Nationalist Spain AI tries to guess what they'll be doing) - so could run the risk of AI forces repositioning all the time to balance fronts and the like. Could have just missed it though .

Senator Robert Taft: "Lending war equipment is a good deal like lending chewing gum. You don't want it back."

That is a classic quote, but the US did get a fair bit of its equipment back after the war (definitely in terms of ships, but also quite a few aircraft and vehicles as well I think, but my memory is shakier on that). That said, not a biggy at this stage, the SCW shouldn't involve huge amounts of equipment, and presumably if the game had two large wars instead of one, the alliances would still be relatively intact so, using the US and UK as an example, they'd still be helping each other out in any event.

 

[Secret Master]

That is a classic quote, but the US did get a fair bit of its equipment back after the war (definitely in terms of ships, but also quite a few aircraft and vehicles as well I think, but my memory is shakier on that).

No, the US really didn't get much back beyond the ships.

However...

What you may be thinking of is reverse Lend-Lease (Reciprocal Aid) where allies of the US gave the US stuff. Canada and New Zealand gave the US tons of Reciprocal Aid (in 1945, I think New Zealand gave the US more aid than she received in Lend-Lease). There were also joint projects that used US financing but allied labor to build facilities. It's Lend-Lease because the US financed it and sent the materials, but the allies in question did their part.

You may also be thinking of Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union that was financed by US banks, but was British war material. So, that's Lend-Lease from the US, but it's Churchills and Valentines going to the Soviets.

So, the US wasn't getting back used Shermans and trucks, but her allies were sometimes giving stuff to the US to help.

 

[MajorHeartfire]

Either way, it is important to have enough influence to help shift a war in one nation's favor, but not too much so that certain nations are always guaranteed to win. For example, what would have happened if the UK sent expeditionary forces to Spain as well? Would they have clashed with Germans in a purely proxy war? Is there an event for when two nations that are not at war suddenly end up on differing sides of a civil war? Does it merely cause a major escalation in the global threat level?

Fascist Spain obviously won in the end, but what would have happened if there had been a more robust Allied intervention to preserve Spain, or at least lock it in an unwinnable war? Really, of all the nations, France had the best access to Spain - yet I have never heard much about French support. Could a player change that easily? Could a French player effectively ensure that the anti-Fascist camp won in the Civil War? If so - how would that change the other outlooks. It's a constantly evolving scenario and I imagine that the anti-Fascist would not have been happy with Italy and Germany and they may have sided with the Allies.