Expeditionary Forces Use My Manpower??

[Zoetermeer]

As Germany in late 1945, I started getting "low manpower" alerts. Just as an experiment, I tried disbanding a few of the expeditionary forces that had been gifted to me by Italy and Turkey. Then, to my surprise, my manpower alerts went away!

Is it true that my manpower is being used to reinforce foreign armies under my control? This seems very wrong to me.

 

[Phloyd113]

As I have yet to track the effects of replenishing such units, but I watched my manpower numbers as I accepted the Ex Force and it was NOT affected when the troops came aboard.

I support your notion that such troops ought to be replenished from their home nation, but perhaps we can see a compromise. And here is my idea:

Let the accepting country pay for replenishing, but ALSO allow that country to change the division template for them. Or only have the accepting country pay for the troop IF a new template is applied.

I think there is room for trade offs on this.

 

[Zoetermeer]

But wouldn't your manpower only be affected once you start having to replace losses in those units? Just accepting the forces shouldn't change manpower at all?

 

[Phloyd113]

That's what I said. I watched my manpower numbers when an offer was put forward, before I accepted it. When I accepted it, there was no change to my manpower. Truly, I have not played deep enough to experience the manpower effects of replenishment, but I believe the OP will be correct.

 

[Zoetermeer]

I'm indifferent on the template-changing ability, but I do not want foreign divisions replenished with my manpower. It just does not make sense that German replacements would be sent in to Italian units, for example. That may have happened in reality, but I doubt it.

 

[CharlieFox]

Good to know. So I guess this removes the temptation of using expedicionary forces as cannon folder. I guess since they probably come with bad templates (by player standard) the best use of Exp Forces is as garrison (unless you immediately need to fill a front)

 

[Ferocian]

I don't think you're getting what the OP is saying. He's talking about reinforcements for expeditionary forces coming from your manpower pool, not their initial manpower. I found this thread because I was experiencing the same thing. I accepted a ton of expeditionary forces (120 divisions) from my puppet China when playing as Japan and because their equipment and design is ass, I watched my manpower pool drop from 4M to 0 within 2 ingame years just from fighting through India. My manpower was definitely being used to reinforce their garbage units.

 

[Feeblezak]

Good to know. So I guess this removes the temptation of using expedicionary forces as cannon folder. I guess since they probably come with bad templates (by player standard) the best use of Exp Forces is as garrison (unless you immediately need to fill a front)

The templates are absolute trash. You should accept them and view the templates, always good if you fancy a laugh.

They are usually cripplingly underequipped too.

 

[whosthebestcop]

I use them for suppressing. Ireland as a puppet sent me 60 divisions had a suppression of 10. And since they aren't losing manpower I don't need to replenish it. But yeah if they are combat troops then it seems to not be working as you would expect.

The nation of origin should be paying the manpower or at least like 75% of it.

 

[Owl Raider]

I just always decline expedition offers I rather the AI use and supply its own terribly designed divisions while I use my own armies with properly designed divisions for my own needs. Never felt the need for all that extra manpower anyway, even when playing minors like the Dutch or Denmark(and going Communist at that for the achievement so no extra manpower from Militarism and Military Youth). Sure, your expectations need to be adjusted, don't expect to conquer the entire world on your own with Communist Denmark, but with the Dutch I basically did that by going Fascist and splitting it with Germany. In fact I have a save in 1950 now with me as the Dutch controlling a small part of France, basically extending my borders just a bit, and of course Belgium and Luxembourg(mostly for the achievement but also why not) as well as the entire UK, entire USA, most of Canada, the entire British Raj and a bunch more territories in South East Asia, Central America from Mexico to Panama barring the little islands as well as most of the Middle East(barring the coastal nations which Germany and Italy made into Fascist puppets(Egypt, Israel, Syria, etc). All that with the Dutch's tiny manpower and no expeditions(though I did once accept a 92!!! Italian expedition accidentally but never really used them much just wanted to get rid of them until eventually I discovered that disbanding them will do just that, return them to Italy rather than get rid of the altogether), though I did go to all adults serve since I was indeed getting low on manpower(only a 20k or so left before switching from extended conscription).

Speaking of that game, if anyone wants a true world conquest with the above scenario leaving the Axis than betraying Germany and basically fighting the rest of the world barring neutrals in South America and the like than let me know. All techs including 1950s Jet Fighters and Tactical Bombers(working on the strategics now, never really used them so didn't bother researching the line earlier) available, and probably for the AI too, tons of resources but also plenty of shortages that you won't be able to get from Germany(as I am now) since you're betraying them though you have more than enough industry to sustain you Imho. Oh yeah and 48 killer armored infantry divisions with super heavy tanks, AT, SP and AA alongside a bunch of infantry(for organization) and rocket arty. These divisions wreck hard, though I was surprised the 1.1 AI manages to pierce through these massive 40 width divisions pretty regularly despite using 1 super heavy TD, 1 super heavy tank, 1 super heavy AA and 2 or 3 super heavy SP(forgot how many) all with a bunch of armor upgrades on top of being super heavy(had tons of land experience to spend) along with the usual 9 or so infantry and some rocket arties to fill width to 40, oh and with 5 support companies too(the scaling ones like engineers, recon, maintenance, etc). If anyone wants to play out this apocalyptic war than I can send you the save file.

 

[elfiwolfe]

Accepted 42 divisions from Romania. 7xINF,2xART. After I had them for 3 months they are now 7xINF, 2xART(ENG,ART,SGN)

 

[ringhloth]

Manpower alerts are a function of your current army - I had low manpower for the Soviets with a million men still in the pool.

 

[fabius]

If expedition forces use hosting countries manpower, has anybody posted in the bug forum?

 

[Dalwin]

Why would it be a bug?

In all previous versions, the host country was the one who paid to reinforce and supply expeditionary forces. I expect that to be the case here and for it to be working as intended. You can always assign them into separate armies and theaters and assign those low replacement priority.

 

[fabius]

Why would it be a bug?

In all previous versions, the host country was the one who paid to reinforce and supply expeditionary forces. I expect that to be the case here and for it to be working as intended. You can always assign them into separate armies and theaters and assign those low replacement priority.

Equipment maybe; supply yes. Not manpower. Manpower going to allied countries armies under my command is not making sense to me.

 

[Dalwin]

It may not make 100% sense but it is how the game has always been. If it is problematic you can as I said set them to have lower priority for replacements or you can release them or rnot accept them to begin with. It is certainly not broken, however.

 

[happyman40]

It may not make 100% sense but it is how the game has always been. If it is problematic you can as I said set them to have lower priority for replacements or you can release them or rnot accept them to begin with. It is certainly not broken, however.

I agree as well that it's not broken.

Certainly if you take the position that "it's a game" and not meant to depict reality in any way, and doing things as they have always been done is always a "royal flush" in defending a position, then one cannot argue for it to be any different.

Of course, if we started a debate about "realism" versus "gaming balance and freedom of choice" there would never be a consensus and this would be a locked thread within 48 hours

Having said that, it things like this that diminish immersion. I found this "feature" early on and have since refused all Expeditionary forces. Yes I would like to be able to control the AI country forces; and this is a good feature that in Hoi3 was always a pain. But losing Manpower to them is both unrealistic and too annoying to bother with.

Hopefully Paradox will re-consider the logic and re-balance game to give Exp forces a realistic model and / or give player at least the option to assign units to battle plan fronts without having control.

 

[frolix42]

So as El Salvador, I could send a massive amount of nearly empty divisions as an expeditionary force to British Raj, then recall them in a few weeks. Thank you India

It may not be a "bug" and it may be "WAD", but it's a very annoying to have expeditionary forces suck your manpower. It should be improved to work intuitively, Italian units should have Italian reinforcements.

 

[fabius]

...Having said that, it things like this that diminish immersion. I found this "feature" early on and have since refused all Expeditionary forces. Yes I would like to be able to control the AI country forces; and this is a good feature that in Hoi3 was always a pain. But losing Manpower to them is both unrealistic and too annoying to bother with.

Hopefully Paradox will re-consider the logic and re-balance game to give Exp forces a realistic model and / or give player at least the option to assign units to battle plan fronts without having control.

Yes, that's how I respond to it. I'm a bit disappointed.

First, I hate AI allies LOL'ing around my lines, messing with the supply balance.
Then I see this feature in Hoi4 that I think is great to put some breaks on AI allies shenanigans. To then find it drains my manpower. Oh, and they send me half or lower strength divisions to begin with.

This counter-intuitive; slightly wacky way of doing manpower for ally expedition forces coupled with their need to run around my lines is leading me play a much shallower game. I'll end up refusing all allies/axis partners.

 

[frolix42]

I think that ideally Expeditionary Forces should work similar to Volunteers, the difference being that Expeditions should be controlled by the host. The reinforcements should be provided by the lender and the Expeditionary Force should be a separate army with it's own general.

It's really awkward, for example, to suddenly have to assign places for 26 Belgian Divisions as France. Just make them their own Army with a Belgian General!