Excuse me, but what is this??? [Solved]

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kvetcha

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Wait, are you trying to say he took those words out of his head? Not simply quoted the words told by the one of Developers??? Just say it, and it will have some really funny consequences. :rolleyes:

You'll note that never was the word 'promise' mentioned. Neither 'oath,' nor 'pact,' nor 'vow.' You made assumptions based on a very subjective interpretation of what the devs meant, and are now upset they have not done things to your liking. This is not on the devs.
 

Scarish

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Is this the linked quote you mean?



Look at the bolded sentence, where the developer says right up front that alpha-strike boats are degenerate and they intend to avoid making them possible.

Guess you didn't read that part?
Guess you never got a 40dmg(200 in BT) Alpha from the twin-AC/20Cat mutant in MWO. Because otherwise you wouldn't stick to this part. :D
 

Mojo Amok

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I think the original (now unattributed) quote in question might have come from this thread:

https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/2175/comments/35163

It's actually a mash-up of quotes from different places, but I get directed to that thread if I throw this into Google:

What I'm doing is trying to adapt a hardpoint-based system in a way that allows you some 3025-appropriate retooling and repair of your Mechs, but in a way that preserves the essential character of each Mech variant. One of the particular effects of this design has been the realization that I basically can't let you swap anything else into a MG slot, regardless of what 'hardpoint' ends up meaning. I can let you remove it; I can maybe let you put a flamer there, if I'm feeling generous. But I can't really let you put a genuinely useful weapon in that spot.

Unfortunately, it's an 86 page thread and it's not on page 48, which is where Google takes me.

The "MG trolling" quote is from here: https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/2234/comments/35611

Looks like 2-year-old theory crafting from Kiva to me, so yeah, [Mod Edit: Dismissive snark]
 
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President Jyrgunkarrd

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Guess you never got a 40dmg(200 in BT) Alpha from the twin-AC/20Cat mutant in MWO. Because otherwise you wouldn't stick to this part. :D

The AC/20 was an okay-ish gun in TT. It was not nearly as ubiquitous as PPC boating.

The rest of the autocannons in TT were hot garbage.


If your bias is MWO, that explains a lot. HBS was using TT as their baseline, not MWO. MWO is hardly the BattleTech bible.
 

Havamal

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Sigh...

Sorry, but they were. And this is obvious fact, for me. The words were said, and i quoted them. And honestly, i don't care if you disagree with me. For me K2 Gausscat do not 'preserves the essential character of each Mech variant'. Simply because K2 variant never was a platform for heavy Ballistics or Missiles, it was a platform for heavy Energy weapons. Period.
Hmm. Opinion meets Opinion meets Opinion.

Impasse.

As thread OP what direction do you suggest to move discussion forward respectfully? Or is this thread now solved?

Please advise.
 

SpectreSS

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I don't read any promises at all in there. What I read was them saying you can't pull off a small laser and slap a PPC in it's place as it physically wouldn't fit. But could you feasibly pull off 2 PPCs and slap 2 x AC10s on there, I would say they would be pretty close size wise. Is it 100% by the books no, but there were a lot of other mechs even in the novels that were modified from what the stock mechs were shipped out as. Thats how I read that statement anyway, and TBH I like the different customization options.
 

President Jyrgunkarrd

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Simply because K2 variant never was a platform for heavy Ballistics or Missiles, it was a platform for heavy Energy weapons. Period.

THE K2 VARIANT IS A FRANKENMECH.

It is not a stock production mech at all, and has no standardization. One time, someone said, 'Hey, this vehicle has a sufficient power supply & sufficient chassis strength to support a couple of PPCs. What if we saw-off the missile batteries and install some PPCs?'

LITERALLY ONE TIME.


This is not some venerable, ubiquitous design seen all over the place. It was an improvised hack job that gained some limited popularity.
 

Varkin

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The author is not clueless in his statements, the main point is that the developers have broken their promises ...
You specifically provided a link)
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9573/comments/182464

I see no promise from a developer in that whole thread as it relates to this topic. I see a quote from a Dev describing what they are thinking of maybe doing in a design context. But nothing even remotely resembling a promise of what they are going to do.

Show me the part that says: We are doing it this way. Or we are not going to allow this type of mech customization. Any definitive statement about it, because that thread has NO definitive statements from a dev about what will or will not be allowed with mech customization as it relates to this topic. The only thing it has are thoughts and speculation.
 

Hasler

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Sorry, but they were. And this is obvious fact, for me. The words were said, and i quoted them. And honestly, i don't care if you disagree with me. For me K2 Gausscat do not 'preserves the essential character of each Mech variant'. Simply because K2 variant never was a platform for heavy Ballistics or Missiles, it was a platform for heavy Energy weapons. Period.

Let's look at what the mech Identity actually is.
The K2 is special because it is a direct fire platform not because of PPC or other energy weapons.

A normal catapult is special because of missiles, not specifically which missile type.

By keeping the character of a mech you keep its primary role intact. It does not matter in this case if it's a ppc or ac10 the direct fire role is kept.

Since you are on the topic of catapults :
C2- LB-X 2 upgrade
C3- Arrow Artillery system swapped in
C6- Plasma rifles (done as a field upgrade replacing the missile systems)
 

General Lee High

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At OP - Seems like the main starting point of this argument is the screen shot showing the Model number K-2 which is the Kurita version of this mech. The K2 is one of 17 "canon" variants. However the point I'm getting at is would this argument have started if the mech displayed had a different variant designation?

@HBS this could be resolved in the future by I don't know maybe forcing a name change when we bastardize our mechs to meet our individual playing styles? Or maybe dropping the Model variant names altogether so this point doesn't turn off MWO players? Just looking for resolutions here...

FYI

The Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech initially produced on a limited contract for the Terran Hegemony. Representing Hollis Incorporated's first foray into the 'Mech market, the Catapult was produced in record numbers over its initial three-year period from the company's brand-new, state-of-the-art factory. However, when the contract came up for review in 2563, the Hegemony decided not to renew it; while the Catapult had performed adequately at its role, it was not quite what they wanted. With large numbers of the 'Mech still in the field, the Catapult would continue to see use in the Star League Defense Force with second-line and specialist formations such as mountaineering regiments. When the factory constructing them switched over to the more-successful BattleMaster, Hollis' limited production of spare parts couldn't keep the design's numbers from dwindling.[4][5]

When the Star League fell, many of the remaining Catapults joined Aleksandr Kerensky on his Exodus. The Capellan Confederation collected most of the Catapults that remained in the Inner Sphere, and the Hollis factory on Corey briefly produced new models and spare parts. At the same time, the Draconis Combine managed to seize a sizable force in their capture of Dieron. The renewed production ended when the Corey factory was destroyed at the onset of the First Succession War, ensuring the rarity of the Catapult during the rest of that bloody era. Entire invasions were commenced simply to seize the remaining number of these 'Mechs, particularly those launched by the Federated Suns against the Confederation.[4][5]

Many variants of this venerable design were produced through its lifetime, and the Catapult's rarity began to reverse in 3033 when Yori 'Mech Works was contracted by the DCMS to restart production of the CPLT-K2 on Al Na'ir. The greatest change to the chassis came later, with the introduction of the CPLT-C3, which swapped out the original's LRMs for much larger and more powerful artillery missiles. These models were put to excellent use, especially when paired with Ravens, and paved the way for new design advancements.[6]
 

Scarish

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You'll note that never was the word 'promise' mentioned. Neither 'oath,' nor 'pact,' nor 'vow.' You made assumptions based on a very subjective interpretation of what the devs meant, and are now upset they have not done things to your liking. This is not on the devs.
Sophistry as the last excuse? C'mon...this is so weak. That dev said what he said. And community, and me personally, believed to his word. If he would say something like: Ok, guys, we won't let you replace 0,5t MGs with a 14-15t heavy ballistics, but will add ballistic hardpoints to side-torso of K2 to make exactly the same mutants as you could see in MWO, i would ask for refund in that very moment. But he said very reasonable words, and i believed to him and was so much glad to hear these words, because this was the only reasonable way to 'preserve the essential character of each Mech variant', make it 'feel-like-BT-lore' and do not let the repetition of that insane situation which we had in the failed MWO with an average daily online around 1000 players(from initial 10000 at OBT). Because MWO sucks in many aspects, but dimensionless hardpoints is one of the main reasons why it sucks. Exactly because the Mechs like K2 lost their 'essential character'(tm).
 

kvetcha

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Sophistry as the last excuse? C'mon...this is so weak. That dev said what he said. And community, and me personally, believed to his word. If he would say something like: Ok, guys, we won't let you replace 0,5t MGs with a 14-15t heavy ballistics, but will add ballistic hardpoints to side-torso of K2 to make exactly the same mutants as you could see in MWO, i would ask for refund in that very moment. But he said very reasonable words, and i believed to him and was so much glad to hear these words, because this was the only reasonable way to 'preserve the essential character of each Mech variant', make it 'feel-like-BT-lore' and do not let the repetition of that insane situation which we had in the failed MWO with an average daily online around 1000 players(from initial 10000 at OBT). Because MWO sucks in many aspects, but dimensionless hardpoints is one of the main reasons why it sucks. Exactly because the Mechs like K2 lost their 'essential character'(tm).

The K2 is a mech that already lost the 'essential character' of the Catapult. Your argument is specious.
 

General Lee High

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do not let the repetition of that insane situation which we had in the failed MWO with an average daily online around 1000 players(from initial 10000 at OBT). Because MWO sucks in many aspects, but dimensionless hardpoints is one of the main reasons why it sucks. Exactly because the Mechs like K2 lost their 'essential character'(tm).

This is BattleTech, which came before MWO. In point of FACT Mechwarrior is\was nothing more than the Role Playing version of BattleTech to allow TT players to do more than just simulate Mech Combat. BattleTech lore is based on BATTLEMECHS not Mechwarriors so your argument doesn't seem valid. I RESPECT YOUR PASSION on the issue as I just as passionately WANT the ability to totally customize/bastardize my Battlemech and with judicious editing of JSON files I will do just that. An I am thankful that HBS has given me a way to relive my TT glory days by giving me a game that I can change to fit my wants in a way that suits my vision/memory of BattleTech.

The K2 is a mech that already lost the 'essential character' of the Catapult. Your argument is specious.

What he said
 

Hasler

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Sophistry as the last excuse? C'mon...this is so weak. That dev said what he said. And community, and me personally, believed to his word. If he would say something like: Ok, guys, we won't let you replace 0,5t MGs with a 14-15t heavy ballistics, but will add ballistic hardpoints to side-torso of K2 to make exactly the same mutants as you could see in MWO, i would ask for refund in that very moment. But he said very reasonable words, and i believed to him and was so much glad to hear these words, because this was the only reasonable way to 'preserve the essential character of each Mech variant', make it 'feel-like-BT-lore' and do not let the repetition of that insane situation which we had in the failed MWO with an average daily online around 1000 players(from initial 10000 at OBT). Because MWO sucks in many aspects, but dimensionless hardpoints is one of the main reasons why it sucks. Exactly because the Mechs like K2 lost their 'essential character'(tm).

Look they are using the same models as MWO. Yes the ballistics should be in the arms as an either or big weapon arrangement. Though I will once again direct you to the C2 which replaced the machine guns with LBX.
I state again the K2s essential character is as a direct fire mech. Fulfilling that role has nothing to do with the PPCs
 

Cyclone Knight

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Sophistry as the last excuse? C'mon...this is so weak. That dev said what he said. And community, and me personally, believed to his word. If he would say something like: Ok, guys, we won't let you replace 0,5t MGs with a 14-15t heavy ballistics, but will add ballistic hardpoints to side-torso of K2 to make exactly the same mutants as you could see in MWO, i would ask for refund in that very moment. But he said very reasonable words, and i believed to him and was so much glad to hear these words, because this was the only reasonable way to 'preserve the essential character of each Mech variant', make it 'feel-like-BT-lore' and do not let the repetition of that insane situation which we had in the failed MWO with an average daily online around 1000 players(from initial 10000 at OBT). Because MWO sucks in many aspects, but dimensionless hardpoints is one of the main reasons why it sucks. Exactly because the Mechs like K2 lost their 'essential character'(tm).

So have you tried asking now?
 

Scarish

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Sigh...


Hmm. Opinion meets Opinion meets Opinion.

Impasse.

As thread OP what direction do you suggest to move discussion forward respectfully? Or is this thread now solved?

Please advise.
I don't see any point to keep this thread open. Close it, please - i heard enough.

[Mod Edit: Snark]
 

Rustingbooger

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THE K2 VARIANT IS A FRANKENMECH.

It is not a stock production mech at all, and has no standardization. One time, someone said, 'Hey, this vehicle has a sufficient power supply & sufficient chassis strength to support a couple of PPCs. What if we saw-off the missile batteries and install some PPCs?'

LITERALLY ONE TIME.


This is not some venerable, ubiquitous design seen all over the place. It was an improvised hack job that gained some limited popularity.

CPLT-K2
Breaking the mold of the Catapult, this House Kurita model removes the LRM-15 launchers and replaces them with two PPCs, allowing the Catapult to act as a direct fire support 'Mech and take a more active role in front line combat. The 'Mech mounts five additional single heat sinks to help dissipate the added heat from the PPCs and two Machine Guns to deter infantry attacks. Space is made by removing the jump jets and two of the medium lasers.

Well, according to the BattleTechWiki page, it's not really a one off. Not trying to start anything, just informing. It looks to me that House Kurita had made and or modified several of them, but thats how Im reading it.
 

Havamal

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