Excuse me, but what is this??? [Solved]

[Lord of Riva]

its just the faulty hardpoints system i am not sure why the op thought it would not work.

in the end the hardpoints fail at their intended purpose but everything fails at the intended purpose of "retaining a mechs identity" bar not having customisation at all.

im convinced you simply cant make both ends of the spectrum happy.

 

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

As someone who isn't well-versed in Battletech, I just assumed heat was part and parcel of the game, and that going heat-neutral meant (unless in cases of certain roles which dictate certain builds) you're probably not building your mech as powerfully as you could. Heat neutrality just sounds like a waste of the heat bar itself.

Besides, I like the idea of not firing everything you have every turn. It gives you good reason to not take those 30% shots. It's like Kenny Rogers said, "You gotta know when to cool'em, know when to shoot'em, know when to run away, know when to jump."

There is one really small but vocal group of players who insist they should be able to boat huge alpha energy weapons and run cool, and that BattleTech should always be about the alpha strike.

They've been around forever, and have been making the same complaints since forever even when PPCs were the be-all, end-all king of optimal play in BattleTech TT.


TT allowed these players the flexibility to build the cheesiest nonsense, and subsequent PC iterations of BattleTech have taken this away when the designers of those games realize during their design process that having a species of one-shot wunderweapons isn't good for a game. For some reason, the vocal minority thought HBS would be different.


I wish we had YouTube back in the early 90s, so people could've uploaded & preserved the kind of bullshit I'm talking about. Nobody would be able to say with a straight face that the game was so well balanced with the original heat values if I were able to just post footage of Awesome tryhard players tabling their opponents while taking 0 damage.

 

[Foks]

Well, it feels a little unnecessary outrage to me.

I mean, it's mainly a singleplayer game so how you equip your mechs will be up to you.

As for the multiplayer skirmish options, I think you can limit to stock models only for fights, though I'm not completely sure. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Hippy]

The Catapult K2 has energy hard points on the arms (just as normal) and MG points in the torso. In this version of the game, MG and normal Ballistic hard points are different. Well this K2 has it changed to Ballistic hard points instead....

The K2 does not officially exist in cannon, as it was both in and out of the time line with changes overs the many years of BattleTech. Technically this would be a proto-type and thus does not need to conform to any of the preconceived norms of a Catapult K2

 

[Bodha]

The thig is, there isn't any reason to make it run that hot. Sure, you can make it useless every turn or two turn, or you could arm it with a better mix in the first place, and have roughly the same firepower without dealing with the extra heat.

I find it interesting that there was a definite design decision to cripple PPCs and large lasers, but not medium lasers, the usual suspect of energy boating. They're still too good, as usual.

And that isnt even considering the ai braces if they cant shoot so most long range play is going to be hampered by that as well unless you do breaching shot.

Oh and there is that spotting issue as well. All the other games in this ip if you could make los and had range you could shoot them, but this one you will run into visual range issues before you get to max range of some weapons....

 

[Herbert West]

im convinced you simply cant make both ends of the spectrum happy.

A small, but vocal minority of posters seem to have an idealised version of TT (with houserules, and without congruence with each other's visions, or the lore, or verisimilitude, or anything), and will attack anything that deviates with such a passion that I question their sanity.

 

[Jade_Rook]

I would rather the ballistic hardpoints were in the arms, so they could effectively replace the PPCs with autocannons. That seems more reasonable to me than having the ACs in the torsos. *shrug*

I don't see this as a big issue.

 

[Kellcat]

Sorry, but this do not 'feels-like-BT-lore' that 'preserves the essential character of each Mech variant'. CPLT-K2 never was Ballistic platform and never had other ballistic weapons than a pair of anti-personnel MG's for self-defence against infantry.

...this...isn't worth all this ranting. Really. I distinctly remember "frankenmechs" were a thing: where even in the fluff random parts could get bolted together just so that something was somewhat working. Among pirates, especially, I remember it being highlighted.

What it boils down to is: If you want to restrict yourself to stock or very-near-stock, then have at it, and glhf, but please stop crying how horrible it is that others will have more freedom in creating what they want.

 

[Scarish]

What it boils down to is: If you want to restrict yourself to stock or very-near-stock, then have at it, and glhf, but please stop crying how horrible it is that others will have more freedom in creating what they want.

Ok, then remove hardpoints completely. Freedom! Let's make the LRM-boat out of the HBK-4G!

 

[Rustingbooger]

Ok, then remove hardpoints completely. Freedom! Let's make the LRM-boat out of the HBK-4G!

I think they already have a hunchback variant that has two LRM 10's, but I cant remember what the model number is at this time

Edit: Ok, just found it.
HBK-4J
Another Swayback 'Mech, this variant was first employed in 2856 and changes the 'Mech's focus from short range combat to fire support by removing the Autocannon/20 and replacing it with two LRM-10 launchers and three additional medium lasers, replacing the two tons of autocannon ammo in the left torso for two tons of missile reloads. This variant can act as a bodyguard 'Mech for fire support lances without degrading the mission of those lances because of its mix of LRMs and medium lasers.

 

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

Ok, then remove hardpoints completely. Freedom! Let's make the LRM-boat out of the HBK-4G!

There were no HP of any sort in TT.

 

[TaurianMerc]

Ok, then remove hardpoints completely. Freedom! Let's make the LRM-boat out of the HBK-4G!

And that is what some people have been asking for (personally I would prefer hard point free and just go back to being limited only by free tonnage and internals)
And yes, there is a Hunchie LRM boat - 4J

 

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

I also find it kind of hilarious & ironic that your go-to example for complaining about 'Frankenmechs' is the Cat K2 armed with PPCs. A prototype Frankenmech that never saw any serious production.

Rather than be angry about HBS having introduced you to the Boomcat, be happy that this is not a game where a Splatcat can flank behind your whole [Mod Edit: Disrespectful] team and wipe them out like so many field mice before a lynx.

 

[Kellcat]

Another thing to point out: There are (low) thousands of mechs available to choose from in tabletop. You can sort through that list and surely find some mech that fits the role and weapons you're after.

With BATTLETECH, you have a very small number of mechs to choose from. If you want to fill all roles, you must be able to modify the mechs.

What HBS has done feels like a fairly decent compromise between trying to retain the "feel" of a 'mech and allowing the player to have as much flexibility as possible.

Being able to do anything with any 'mech would be a difficulty from a graphical perspective, given weapon appearance and such, on top of any sort of "feel" discussion.

 

[dbh1973]

I see no issue with letting players create their own custom variants, that's part of the fun IMO. I just wish there was a mechlab simulator that you could try them out in first.

 

[KnightCole]

IIRC we were promised there won't be a mutants like Gausscat in HBS Battletech. AFAIK, CPLT-K2 was the main heavy Energy Platform of House Kurita. Not a Ballistic or Missile one, but ENERGY. I'm really sorry if i sound rude, but honestly, i'm very mad on this situation.

What that is, is the user taking advantage of the ballistic hard point, in MWO, its a ballistic hard point for the Machineguns.

Might just be over inflated hard points...

 

[Scarish]

There were no HP of any sort in TT.

But there were many other restrictions in the Rules, regulating Mech customization.

 

[Alex Bruney]

I think they already have a hunchback variant that has two LRM 10's, but I cant remember what the model number is at this time

the post of the author expressed feelings of sarcasm in relation to the above expressed on the topic of freedom in the assemblies Mech
And you understand it literally))

This assembly of K2 heresy in relation to the canonical BT!
The developers spoke about the authenticity of the Mech ......

 

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

I see no issue with letting players create their own custom variants, that's part of the fun IMO. I just wish there was a mechlab simulator that you could try them out in first.

This.


This is a thing every developer needs to learn from Starsector, IMHO.

 

[Cyclone Knight]

IIRC, there were 4 levels of customization in the Rules. And you couldn't simply replace MG's with AC/20. It would require a tonne of money and possibly the need to send the Mech back to the Factory where it was made.

Not according to StratOps. You don't need to go back to the factory unless you are:
-Changing the type of myomers.
-Installing CASE.
-Upgrading the Quality Rating.
-Changing internal structure.
-Changing the engine.
-Changing the gyro.
-Changing the cockpit.

No word on cost for one-off customizations, though premade refit kits only cost 10% more than the total cost of everything in it.

As for the rest of the thread, I can see where you're coming from. The ballistic hardpoints really should be in the arms, rather than the side torsos, but I suspect the duplication of hardpoints where the support weapons are mounted in the stock configuration has more to do with the models they're borrowing from PGI than anything else.