Excommunication - antipope - opps

[Arizal]

So, I was playing my nice new king of Britanny, his father happened to be a saint but the pope disliked him (something related to his gluttony and his short reign and lack of piety). So, while I put away my chancellor to fabricate a totally (il)legitimate claim, the pope excommunicated me. It also happened to his dear ather, but he then become paragon of virtue. I chose a different path for that one... Since I had free investiture, I decided to create an antipope. It has been some years nowand I wonder how I could mend the schism I created. I there anyway other than invading and sacking Rome?

 

[Gaudry]

Revoke all titles of your anti-pope and you should rejoin the following of the pope of rome.

 

[Trunting]

You can also declare war on the Pope in Rome and install your Antipope as the new official Pope there, while the old Pope will have to abdicate.

(Have done this sometimes, very funny, but later there were only Fraticellen in Europe anymore^^).

 

[Arizal]

Thanks for your advice, but Gaudry it seems I don't have the option of revoking the last holding of my spiritual leader. So what, I should be excommunicated by he too? For now this will work, since it is a great narrative for my character to have nominated his friend-kinsman as pope, but I hope I will not have to wait until the breakup of the catholic church to fix this thing. I don't feel like invading Rome right now...

(sorry for pulling up this thread, but it is the same issue, just that I didn't have the time to check your answer)

 

[whosthebestcop]

Yeah you have to invade rome and place your anti pope as the real pope. that is the only way to end the anti pope reign 100% of the time.

it is pretty easy to win against the papacy if they only have their 3 starting counties. just send 20K over to siege all 3 counties.

 

[Bialaska]

The problem is that as long as you keep your anti-pope, rather than go to Rome and install your chosen new pope, the moral authority of the Catholics will drop even further, causing more and more heresies to appear

 

[unmerged(275616)]

Be prepared to deal with several thousand mercenaries when fighting the pope.

I think it is kind of odd that invading the papacy only gets a collective "meh" from the rest of Catholic Europe.

 

[Arizal]

Be prepared to deal with several thousand mercenaries when fighting the pope.

I think it is kind of odd that invading the papacy only gets a collective "meh" from the rest of Catholic Europe.

+1, there should be a way to peacefully end the schism, if not during the reign of the excommunicated king, in his son's one. Maybe I'm being romantic, but what if the said son/heir could say : "Sorry, my dad overdid that a little. Maybe we should call a council and try to fix everything before nobody trust the church. Besides, it is common knowledge that my father's "pope" wasn't recognized by anyone." Granted, it shouldn't be easy to solve such a crisis, but there should be a way beside sacking Rome.

In fact, that should be in a possible patch/DLC about the management of the Church. I would like councils to be in, especially since the Great Schism (the one that divided the catholic church, not the Eastern Schism) isn't represented currently and was very important historically.

But aside of that, if the only way is what I said above, I don't really like the actual mechanic and understand why the button is red when you make an antipope...

 

[whosthebestcop]

Once you put your anti pope on the papacy throne you could either invite the old pope to your court or marry him matrilineally to one of your daughters. Once he is in your court assassinate him and you will get all of his gold. This could easily be 10's of thousand of gold.

 

[unmerged(275616)]

Implementing the Western Schism would allow for some interesting intrigue options. It would be neat if the pope would accumulate holdings in other countries and then move in between those holdings. Instead of simply plotting to kill the pope, you could plot to kill the pope while he is in a certain location. For example, let's say you are the king of France and the pope has a holding in Avignon. You could then plot to kill the pope while he is in Avignon in order to make the election of a French pope more likely.

 

[NightDaemon]

Be prepared to deal with several thousand mercenaries when fighting the pope.

I think it is kind of odd that invading the papacy only gets a collective "meh" from the rest of Catholic Europe.

The reason that the Pope wouldn't grant Henry VIII's divorce from Catharine of Aragon is that the HRE had sacked Rome and captured the Pope, and the Emperor objected to dear Auntie being thrown aside.

 

[perpetualmuse]

Yeah you have to invade rome and place your anti pope as the real pope. that is the only way to end the anti pope reign 100% of the time

You can also imprison the Anti-Pope and banish him. This will incur some tyranny, but will remove your Anti-Pope.

 

[unmerged(275616)]

The reason that the Pope wouldn't grant Henry VIII's divorce from Catharine of Aragon is that the HRE had sacked Rome and captured the Pope, and the Emperor objected to dear Auntie being thrown aside.

That is true; however, France and half of Italy were fighting against the Emperor in that war. Also note that the Emperor's troops had essentially gone AWOL. Control over the pope should be a great reward, but the rest of Europe shouldn't turn a blind eye to that control.

 

[Arizal]

So, finally I resolved the crisis by trying to imprison the Anti-Pope. He revolted and I crushed him easily, seizing his holding and having -40 relation with all my direct vassals because I'm a tyrant. It may be true, but I still think I lacked options to explain why I was doing this (to avoid a Great Schism), which seems a far better reason than because I was angry against a Pope that excommunicated me. In my opinion, there should be a possility that my kingdom fell in great turmoil when I created the Anti-Pope. The contrary seems strange, since I reintegrated the Church and had the Pope blessing (maybe an option to seek the forgiveness of the Pope could remove the tyranny penalty). My vassals should have revolted (and nobody did) when I created the Anti-Pope because it was then evident I was doing this only because I was angry to be excommunicated.

Just to add to the realism, however, when I invaded Gascogne, I gained the "Bold" nickname, which I think fits perfectly with the way I played this character...