:excl:[Suggestion]: Increase BT (aka "population", if you prefer) with a PROJECT

[Bragi]

[Suggestion]: Increase BT (aka "population", if you prefer) with a PROJECT

Hi there



There were some discoussions about the inability to actually develop a province in terms of "population" density and economical infrastructures.
Currently we are stuck with the basetax a province gives us, may it be a 4BT oversee colony just reached its overwhealming 1000 people or the 4BT province of Zurich next door with its millenia spanning development in various aspect.

Using pops again is, as mentioned by the devs, out of question, so we have to implement another way to reflect such developments.

Here is my suggestion:

Similar to other projects like converting, coring, buildings etc. we could have a project available called e.g. "increase population", which means, your nation tries to settle some more population to a province with low "population density" (=low BT, prod and trade).

This project could be handled as those we currently have. It would cost, say, a certain amount of money, ADM-points and time and results in e.g. 1+ BT and +1 production.
Of course, these costs have to be very carefully balanced. Perhaps a chance-based model is necessary, like we have in many decisions. That should reflect the potential failure of the project.

What do you think?

 

[agustinalarcon]

There were some discoussions about the inability to actually develop a province in terms of "population" density and economical infrastructures.

Well, there are two factors there : economical infrastructures, which in my opinion are pretty good handled by buildings, and population density.. which seems to have no impact at all.

Currently we are stuck with the basetax a province gives us, may it be a 4BT oversee colony just reached its overwhealming 1000 people or the 4BT province of Zurich next door with its millenia spanning development in various aspect.

In 1.8 there's a slight difference now ; your colonies can't get less than 50% Local Autonomy (75% if it's an overseas colony I think, but I've only been playing with Russia so far with 1.8)
Nevertheless, that does not represent any difference in population, it's just "inefficient governement".

Using pops again is, as mentioned by the devs, out of question, so we have to implement another way to reflect such developments.
Here is my suggestion:
Similar to other projects like converting, coring, buildings etc. we could have a project available called e.g. "increase population", which means, your nation tries to settle some more population to a province with low "population density" (=low BT, prod and trade).
This project could be handled as those we currently have. It would cost, say, a certain amount of money, ADM-points and time and results in e.g. 1+ BT and +1 production.
Of course, these costs have to be very carefully balanced. Perhaps a chance-based model is necessary, like we have in many decisions. That should reflect the potential failure of the project.
What do you think?

I was myself thinking of something similar, but I don't know if that's the solution.
I think that basetax should disappear, and that the tax of the province should be determined by its level of population, not an exact number, but kind of a graduation : small town / town / city / big city / metropolis, something like that.
But in the mean time, your solution could be more easy to implement in some mod. Perhaps every province should start with lower BT and have this new category of buildings to gain BT ?

 

[Thrake]

If it's only about moving people, then you should loose BT somewhere also, in a similar fashion to the cerfs are moving to capital event. I recon a bit more dynamic provinces would be nice though I would personnaly mostly want to be given more possibilities to develop my capital. As it stands, my capital could be a 1 BT or a 15 BT, it makes no difference, and it's not significantly different from a random province, wether I'm an OPM or a sprawling Empire.

 

[Starshock]

Base tax should increase over time, but be devastated by wars, in example having a province get sieged should lead to -1 base tax or something, this could help simulate the fall of Hungary, Vijayanar, ect. Provinces with higher autonomy should grow in base tax slower than ones with lower autonomy too.

 

[Elfryc]

If this is entered into a mod one day or another, I'd also suggest to add the influence of the political capital and the main port.

These towns should develop with time, reflecting their role for centralization of population, wealth, power, etc. Probably some event coupled with a long modifier should permit them to win BT/population every 50/100 years, or something like that.

Perhaps every province should start with lower BT and have this new category of buildings to gain BT ?

Bad idea, I think. Constantinople, Bagdad, Alexandria or Venice in 1444 were some images of THE city, when Rome was only ruins, and some provinces hardly had more than minor towns.

 

[Bragi]

Yeah, my example with a oversea colony is bad, you don't get the same amount of money of it due to LA stuck at 50%. As a CN you get out the same amount of recently settled, say, Massachusetts like France get from Champagne.

The buildings "kind of" represent a developement. You choose a specific building to give you a bonus in the targeted game aspect, but it barely refelects the actual state of infrastructure in that province. I bet Paris Berlin already had a market in 1444.

BT could be dynamic and affected by war and events like plague or something, as mentioned above.

Said project would surely be very costly, but since it reflects not only the resettlement of citizens you already have in your realm but rather the hole progress thing, which is currently not depicted in the game, I don't know if it is a good solution to take this +1 BT away from another of your provinces.

 

[Christopholes]

The thing is, if you check province history files, if you start at later dates provinces like London and Brandenburg have higher BT while several french provinces and iirc Lubeck have lower BT. I'd say make it sort of event, with MMTH reduced by being a capitol, admin ideas, economic ideas, COT, current base tax. And looted/occupied/salted provinces ineligible. Idk need more coffee.

 

[agustinalarcon]

The thing is, if you check province history files, if you start at later dates provinces like London and Brandenburg have higher BT while several french provinces and iirc Lubeck have lower BT. I'd say make it sort of event, with MMTH reduced by being a capitol, admin ideas, economic ideas, COT, current base tax. And looted/occupied/salted provinces ineligible. Idk need more coffee.

I never checked these ones, but it seems a good idea to have more variability in BT. That it would "normally" go up, and sometimes down due to wars/plague/etc
It always seems strange to me that most of my provinces keep the same BT for all the game duration.

Bad idea, I think. Constantinople, Bagdad, Alexandria or Venice in 1444 were some images of THE city, when Rome was only ruins, and some provinces hardly had more than minor towns.

After rethinking, I have to agree with you

 

[Freudia]

Base tax should increase over time, but be devastated by wars, in example having a province get sieged should lead to -1 base tax or something, this could help simulate the fall of Hungary, Vijayanar, ect.

The problem with this is that for it to matter, it would need to fire reasonably often (assuming it is event-driven). If it fires often, I am going to turn France into a wasteland every game.