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TimW

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Are there any examples of cities that are divided? One side of the city is beautiful and all services are within reach while on the other side of a feature (like a river), the city is not as well-maintained and has lower incomes. Are there some examples of making such divided cities?
 

Myquandro

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I don't know any cities that still have this very clearly today, but Berlin and Budapest come to mind with this topic. Nowadays those cities are more balanced as they're not divided anymore, but in architecture the difference is still visible and I think with Berlin you can/could also see it in the light colour of the streetlamps and such.

Less exaggerated examples I know of from my own country is Rotterdam where the city wants to build new infrastrucure across the river to connect north and south of the city more to balance the wealth as the north part is wealthy while the south is not so much.

Other examples (in some respect) that I can think of are New York (either side of the East River) and Sydney (both sides of the harbour), although I'm not sure about those as I'm not familiar with the cities.
 

MotownCountry

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Detroit? if you hang out in the actual DOWNTOWN part...everything is like futuristic/modern and vibrant! we're building a new stadium too! we're getting a new tram line. we have the old but still awesome people mover. and each part of Downtown is divided into districts.

then when you venter beyond the downtown 'borders'....it looks like an episode of the Walking Dead...except there's way more empty land with piles of TRASH on it....and the houses a half there half gone, making it look like the after effect of a World War.....

so ...is that divided enough for you Tim? LOL
(i love my city though....i wish i could see how it was when it was vibrant and NEW...and it was like a vacation going there...)
 

State Machine

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LOL

I grew up in Detroit, and miss it. I run into people now and again who describe it as you do - as a very vibrant place - here and there - and a wasteland, otherwise.

On topic - consider Central and South American cities. I think there will be lots of examples of distinct good and bad - between the districts of the ruling classes, and the slums of many. Also, a place like Lagos, Nigeria, which has really stark contrasts (though you can't model super-corruption in services in CS...)

Cheers,

State
 

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Lawrence, Massachusetts is like that.

Lawrence was built originally as a mill city by factory owners for their workers and mills in the early 1840s. The city its self encompasses an area that was divvied up between the nearby towns of Methuen, Andover, and North Andover, and divided today into two main parts which are divided by the Merrimack River. The original city is called North Lawrence, while the are on the south side of the Merrimack is South Lawrence.

South Side became much more prosperous with better homes and even gained the main railroad station, today's only station, while North Lawrence retained the mills and the downtown. Today it's all poor, but if one were to live in Lawrence, they would choose South Lawrence over North Lawrence.

As I type this, I think of my own city of Haverhill, which is located downstream on the same river. Haverhill is one of the oldest cities in the US, being founded in the 1630s, and was built as a manufacturing center which initially made bricks from clay out of the Little River, a small tributary to the Merrimack, and then manufactured shoes until that all moved to Brazil and Asia in the 1970s. While Haverhill was the manufacturing center, a close neighboring town of Bradford, also named after a town in England, was more genteel with farms and big estates, though there were some apartments and a few factories. The most of the people in Bradford worked and shopped in Haverhill, but commuted across the bridges home to Bradford, thus, making the two towns enjoined right from the beginning. In the 1880s, Bradford merged with Haverhill as by that time they were sharing water, gas, and sewer services, however, even today Bradford maintains that distinction of being the "better" area with more tree lines streets, a college campus (a defunct college now), a pretty square, and still lots of open space.

When I build my cities, I try to maintain the same look. Instead of making one continuously paved city from one end of the map to another, I have small towns, usually with a railroad station, and I establish a downtown of sorts with suburban houses and eventually farms and woods. This separates the towns up, and even on the 81-tiles we now have access to with that famous mod, that makes a whole lot of difference in how my cities look and perform.
 

ForceInfinity

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I know people will hate me for saying this, but Portland OR could be an example. Basically you have an east-west divide on the Willamette River. To a lesser degree you sorta have that with Seattle as well with Seattle and the so-called "Eastside" which is separated by Lake Washington.

I would say perhaps another good example would be the West Sacramento/Sacramento CA split (they are actually two different cities). Those two cities are split up by the Sacramento River, where West Sacramento is a bit rougher than Sac proper.
 

jcitron

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I know people will hate me for saying this, but Portland OR could be an example. Basically you have an east-west divide on the Willamette River. To a lesser degree you sorta have that with Seattle as well with Seattle and the so-called "Eastside" which is separated by Lake Washington.

I would say perhaps another good example would be the West Sacramento/Sacramento CA split (they are actually two different cities). Those two cities are split up by the Sacramento River, where West Sacramento is a bit rougher than Sac proper.

I don't see why. I took a look at an aerial view of these cities. This isn't uncommon where the less prosperous side of the city ends up closer to the industrial areas, though we don't seem to get that in Cities. It would be nice if we had real lower class and poorer looking housing by default in the less affluent neighborhoods.

Anyway here's a couple of shots of the eastern Merrimack Valley.

Lawrence MA

https://binged.it/2lvqbkR

South Lawrence is at the bottom of the map. Note how neat and clean the suburban area is with the little multi-family homes and yards while the north side, with the mills and canals, is not just congested but is rather rundown as well.

Moving down river a few miles and we come to Haverhill and Bradford.

https://binged.it/2lvsXXv

I create my cities more like this if I can with big expanses of woodlands and farms and parks. Interestingly Haverhill always had some big farming areas and still has today, though many are now giving way to housing developments and industrial parks. Rocks Village to the east along the Merrimack, Ayers Village to the west near the New Hampshire and Methuen line and others in the northern and southern extremes are still very rural, and it's hard to see that there is a city somewhere. The area where I live is very rural with farms and lots of woodlands. There's also a very large wooded park and preserve up and around a castle and next to the main reservoir.

Haverhill also has five reservoirs. When the city grew to its peak during the 19th century, the city fathers wanted to ensure there was an adequate and safe water supply. One of the people behind this was Dr. Lahey's family. He the doctor that founded the famous Lahey Clinic. Unlike other cities and towns in the area, we've never had a water shortage during a drought. Instead of a water use ban, we have reduced use and the interconnected reservoirs keep the city supplied. Boy those old guys were smart and forward thinking.
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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Detroit? if you hang out in the actual DOWNTOWN part...everything is like futuristic/modern and vibrant! we're building a new stadium too! we're getting a new tram line. we have the old but still awesome people mover. and each part of Downtown is divided into districts.

then when you venter beyond the downtown 'borders'....it looks like an episode of the Walking Dead...except there's way more empty land with piles of TRASH on it....and the houses a half there half gone, making it look like the after effect of a World War.....

so ...is that divided enough for you Tim? LOL
(i love my city though....i wish i could see how it was when it was vibrant and NEW...and it was like a vacation going there...)

LOL

I grew up in Detroit, and miss it. I run into people now and again who describe it as you do - as a very vibrant place - here and there - and a wasteland, otherwise.

On topic - consider Central and South American cities. I think there will be lots of examples of distinct good and bad - between the districts of the ruling classes, and the slums of many. Also, a place like Lagos, Nigeria, which has really stark contrasts (though you can't model super-corruption in services in CS...)

Cheers,

State
Haha, what part?

Detroit is certainly that, but it's become more of a patchwork. I visited a friend up in the University District - wow, gorgeous. And all around it is something completely different. That said, I don't think Detroit really fits OP's bill entirely because it can be really hit and miss, like a quilt rather than starkly divided. DT is nice, and it is surrounded by not-so-nice. But then you hit areas like the Pointes and the University District and suddenly its gorgeous. Then you drive two more blocks and you're in Livonia. A few more and Novi. I love Hamtramck, but I know most people avoid it. Food's too good to pass up. And the soccer.

I am constantly surprised by the number of fellow Detroiters I run into here in the CS section.
 

State Machine

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a belated reply...

But first, Buenos Aries is a way-cool city that I would love to create something like it in Cities.

In regards to Detroit, I lived at 7 Mile and Livernois and went to Cass for high school. Mid-1970's. My Father's furniture business meant that I helped deliver furniture all over the place - west-side, east-side, south, Macolm County, blah blah blah...Great city! But, even then, as you say, a patchwork.
 

whosthebestcop

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Are there any examples of cities that are divided? One side of the city is beautiful and all services are within reach while on the other side of a feature (like a river), the city is not as well-maintained and has lower incomes. Are there some examples of making such divided cities?

Sounds like every major USA city or at least an overwhelming majority.
 

The-Eradicator

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Reims in Champagne, France ... The town is literally divided by a horrible freeway which is located right next to a river/canal ... North of the freeway is what's left of the old city and its champagne houses/cellars and the south is mostly made of ugly project housings, mosques and blue collar rowhouses.
 

Dauth

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Brazzaville and Kinshasa are two cities across a river from each other in different countries. Though the googlemaps images aren't the best you can possibly see some variety.
 

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Put in urban freeways and a little redlining fam.

RIP Saginaw.

This happened in my area as well. When I-495 went through, it wiped out farms and some neighborhoods in Haverhill, and in some cases in Lawrence actually formed a border between North Andover and Lawrence so that the North Andover side is "safe" and pretty compared to the rundown Lawrence side.

What's interesting is a look at historic maps of areas to see what they were like before highways went in and neighborhoods were destroyed. This service unfortunately is only for the US, but there is a similar service for the UK as well that I am aware of. I don't have the link for the UK version, but here's Historic Aerials:

www.historicaerials.com

In some ways I feel sad when I see what used to be there before these interstates went through.
 

Comrade Chaos

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This happened in my area as well. When I-495 went through, it wiped out farms and some neighborhoods in Haverhill, and in some cases in Lawrence actually formed a border between North Andover and Lawrence so that the North Andover side is "safe" and pretty compared to the rundown Lawrence side.

What's interesting is a look at historic maps of areas to see what they were like before highways went in and neighborhoods were destroyed. This service unfortunately is only for the US, but there is a similar service for the UK as well that I am aware of. I don't have the link for the UK version, but here's Historic Aerials:

www.historicaerials.com

In some ways I feel sad when I see what used to be there before these interstates went through.
Postwar America was relatively extremely wealthy, so there were a lot of crazy ideas to make things "better" with those types of silver-bullet projects. Freeways, demolishing neighborhoods for malls or rebuilding historical forts like in Rome, NY (Yup, they actually destroyed a part of town to remake an old fort.), and Federal housing loan regulations making it very hard to finance anything in a lot of cities. (Detroit did all of these tricks plus demolishing places for auto plants)

The freeways bit annoys me the most because it's always pitted as an economic vs social gain thing when urban freeways do not make money (That should be intuitive. Demolishing and elevating/trenching and losing taxable properties costs a lot more per mile than just going around.) I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of the cities doing well now were ones that didn't have as much money to do that stuff in the 60's (The West and South) and vice versa.
 
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jcitron

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Postwar America was relatively extremely wealthy, so there were a lot of crazy ideas to make things "better" with those types of silver-bullet projects. Freeways, demolishing neighborhoods for malls or rebuilding historical forts like in Rome, NY (Yup, they actually destroyed a part of town to remake an old fort.), and Federal housing loan regulations making it very hard to finance anything in a lot of cities. (Detroit did all of these tricks plus demolishing places for auto plants)

The freeways bit annoys me the most because it's always pitted as an economic vs social gain thing when urban freeways do not make money (That should be intuitive. Demolishing and elevating/trenching and losing taxable properties costs a lot more per mile than just going around.) I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of the cities doing well now were ones that didn't have as much money to do that stuff in the 60's (The West and South) and vice versa.

Such a coincidence is right! Where I live in New England, we were at the heart of the early highway "experiments" and early projects such as the famous Route 128, now part of I-95. This was one of the highways that cut great swaths through the Boston suburbs such as Newton, Woburn, Burlington, and so many more as it linked the North Shore with the South Shore around Boston. Everything was fine and dandy with this project, including one which brought the elevated portion of I-93 through Somerville and Medford, until they tried to cut a big hunk into Arlington and Cambridge via Winchester. This uppity area didn't want the noise and destruction of its neighborhoods, which were okay for the other towns around them, so they fought tooth and nail, and won the battle too, to keep that continuation of Route 3 (not old Route 3/3a) from heading down from Route 128 to its connection at I-93 in Somerville.

Even today there still signs of this never-completed connection. The northern section of Route 3, the one that heads to New Hampshire, ends at Route 128 in Burlington with a dirt path blocked with concrete barriers, continues a bit beyond that south, and in Somerville on the bridge over the North Station train yard. This bridge has some extra wide lanes and terminated off ramp connectors which go nowhere. Up in the Merrimack Valley there was supposed to be a road that paralleled the Merrimack River to Lawrence. This highway, in addition to the Route 213 connector road between I-93 and I-495, was supposed to be a highway to downtown Lawrence. When the residents got wind of this, the project ended before it even began. The telltale signs of this project are the extra wide bridge over the Merrimack River between Andover and Methuen.

The economic gain from the highways? I don't see their reasoning. In fact I see the opposite. When I-495 opened up in early 1960s, the whole Merrimack Valley died very quickly. The cities and towns along the old meandering Route 110, which connected the main streets and downtowns of the various towns from Lowell to Salisbury beach and a bit more west to Ayer and Fitchburg, all collapsed suddenly. The route was the main route to the summer homes on the beaches, and the towns catered to these travelers as they made their weekend journey to the beaches in the summer time, and became quiet hamlets after Labor Day passed. All along Route 110 were once countless restaurants, gas stations, repair shops, thriving downtowns, and all this closed down very quickly and sadly once the interstate came through. Today there are still a handful of older businesses, however, this pales in comparison to what was once there.

The sad part is this is still occurring today in the Midwest as the downtowns become forgotten places as the fast food restaurants moved over next to the interstate. Travel along I-40 in Oklahoma, for example, and any of the highways off ramps will feature a plethora of restaurants, hotels, and usually a big super-sized Walmart all at the expense of the nearby town in which they reside. Take a short drive into any downtown and there are boarded up buildings and empty stores.
 

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Such a coincidence is right! Where I live in New England, we were at the heart of the early highway "experiments" and early projects such as the famous Route 128, now part of I-95. This was one of the highways that cut great swaths through the Boston suburbs such as Newton, Woburn, Burlington, and so many more as it linked the North Shore with the South Shore around Boston. Everything was fine and dandy with this project, including one which brought the elevated portion of I-93 through Somerville and Medford, until they tried to cut a big hunk into Arlington and Cambridge via Winchester. This uppity area didn't want the noise and destruction of its neighborhoods, which were okay for the other towns around them, so they fought tooth and nail, and won the battle too, to keep that continuation of Route 3 (not old Route 3/3a) from heading down from Route 128 to its connection at I-93 in Somerville.

Even today there still signs of this never-completed connection. The northern section of Route 3, the one that heads to New Hampshire, ends at Route 128 in Burlington with a dirt path blocked with concrete barriers, continues a bit beyond that south, and in Somerville on the bridge over the North Station train yard. This bridge has some extra wide lanes and terminated off ramp connectors which go nowhere. Up in the Merrimack Valley there was supposed to be a road that paralleled the Merrimack River to Lawrence. This highway, in addition to the Route 213 connector road between I-93 and I-495, was supposed to be a highway to downtown Lawrence. When the residents got wind of this, the project ended before it even began. The telltale signs of this project are the extra wide bridge over the Merrimack River between Andover and Methuen.

The economic gain from the highways? I don't see their reasoning. In fact I see the opposite. When I-495 opened up in early 1960s, the whole Merrimack Valley died very quickly. The cities and towns along the old meandering Route 110, which connected the main streets and downtowns of the various towns from Lowell to Salisbury beach and a bit more west to Ayer and Fitchburg, all collapsed suddenly. The route was the main route to the summer homes on the beaches, and the towns catered to these travelers as they made their weekend journey to the beaches in the summer time, and became quiet hamlets after Labor Day passed. All along Route 110 were once countless restaurants, gas stations, repair shops, thriving downtowns, and all this closed down very quickly and sadly once the interstate came through. Today there are still a handful of older businesses, however, this pales in comparison to what was once there.

The sad part is this is still occurring today in the Midwest as the downtowns become forgotten places as the fast food restaurants moved over next to the interstate. Travel along I-40 in Oklahoma, for example, and any of the highways off ramps will feature a plethora of restaurants, hotels, and usually a big super-sized Walmart all at the expense of the nearby town in which they reside. Take a short drive into any downtown and there are boarded up buildings and empty stores.
Are you familiar with Strong Towns? I have a feeling that would be up your alley. Towards the latter end of your post, the same thing is even going on in France's smaller cities: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/...n=latest&contentPlacement=9&pgtype=collection
 

jcitron

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Are you familiar with Strong Towns? I have a feeling that would be up your alley. Towards the latter end of your post, the same thing is even going on in France's smaller cities: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/world/europe/france-albi-french-towns-fading.html?rref=collection/timestopic/France&action=click&contentCollection=world&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=9&pgtype=collection

I never heard of that term, however, it fits my area right down to the letter. This is very much how my city is today. Once the interstate went in, everything went away. In addition It doesn't help that the neighboring New Hampshire is tax free and we live on the border, which means everyone shops up there at the expense of their local businesses, and all the local factories closed which once brought lots of local business. A good example, which is similar to the article occurred in my neighborhood. There's a restaurant which has been under three owners since it first opened. Each occupant lasts about 6 or 8 months and then sells out. There was nothing wrong with the food. We patronized the place a number of times, but the business just isn't there anymore. People work outside the area now so there's no longer daytime customers, and those that do come along during the weekend don't bother going out, or favor the bars and small restaurants elsewhere. Outside of the strong city of Lowell, and touristy Newburyport on the coast, the rest of the valley is moribund.

Thanks for the article. :)
 

TimW

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I think I was rather clear in the wrong direction.

Have any of you ever built cities in the game that were divided by type of feature like a river?
How does the simulator handle one city under two different systems (such as straddling a river but none of the infrastructure ever crosses it)?
Have you ever built cities that limit CIM access to certain parts or have as few connectors as possible?