Every game: Castille conquers Morocco?

[sekelsenmat]

I wonder if the starting setup has Marocco ahistorically weak. Maybe it should have more manpower, force limit or something. Maybe a level 0 national idea which gives attrition to enemies due to their strategy of poisoning water wells. In reality Morocco was pretty powerful and I think it was only conquered after the time period and even then it was still nominally independent.

Similarly Tlemcen is conquered every game by Tunis, although they were much much weaker then Marocco, so I guess it's ok.

 

[Blust]

Marocco start off strong with his vassals, and has lots of forts on mountains, I don't see how they're weak. They just have poor expansion roads and tend to ally their possible targets

 

[Sete]

Castille/Portugal wombo combo does not help them aswell.

 

[ShoGuL]

Morocco is not weak, they can usually handle Castile or Portugal.. it's when the Iberian Wedding happens and they have to fight all 3 of them they fall.

Comparatively speaking, Morocco has a strong start but they are playing a losing game with no expansion options.

 

[Josar]

Morroco really shouldn't ally Tunis in most games, as they would be the easiest way to expand

 

[ShoGuL]

Morroco really shouldn't ally Tunis in most games, as they would be the easiest way to expand

Even when they don't, Tunis tends to ally the Ottomans.

 

[sjobenrit]

and sus gets easily over 50 ld in the first months of the game so castile can easily support them and weaken marrocco

 

[Josar]

and sus gets easily over 50 ld in the first months of the game so castile can easily support them and weaken marrocco

That's actually one of the ways Castile can fail. If Morroco is allied to Tunis he can pull them in, and actually take land from Castile.

 

[Battlex]

I wonder if the starting setup has Marocco ahistorically weak. Maybe it should have more manpower, force limit or something. Maybe a level 0 national idea which gives attrition to enemies due to their strategy of poisoning water wells. In reality Morocco was pretty powerful and I think it was only conquered after the time period and even then it was still nominally independent.

Similarly Tlemcen is conquered every game by Tunis, although they were much much weaker then Marocco, so I guess it's ok.

Increase core cost got removed from national ideas. Raiding coasts gives opinion malus. Portugal and Castile (Spain) both get claims via their mission tree on Morocco. Morocco has nowhere to easily expand to except Africa (which is poor) and Tlemcen (which pisses off Tunis) whilst Portugal and Castile rapidly expand across the globe increasing the dev difference

However, morocco can raid coasts for increased income, has cores on all its vassals at start, has a gold mine in one vassal (although castile also starts with a gold mine), has lots of mountains.

Solution lies in giving tools to replicate history, Morocco getting more events to show the Anglo-Moroccan alliance under Elizabeth I to help distract Philip. Buffing the barbary pirates navy even further, so that Morocco can block the straight more easily

 

[sjobenrit]

That's actually one of the ways Castile can fail. If Morroco is allied to Tunis he can pull them in, and actually take land from Castile.

wait, really? In my games the berbers never get the fleet together to beat castile and take over the crossing

 

[Josar]

wait, really? In my games the berbers never get the fleet together to beat castile and take over the crossing

It usually just Castile supporting indepence, so troops can sometimes make the crossing into Iberia. Sometimes Granada can be involved too. It's a 1/10 chance, but I've seen it happen. Generally though, some Iberian power will take control without player intervention.

 

[Cancerofthehead]

Marocco start off strong with his vassals, and has lots of forts on mountains, I don't see how they're weak. They just have poor expansion roads and tend to ally their possible targets

Those vassals are a double edged sword. While they make Morocco a lot more powerful early, but the fastest route to Morocco’s annexation is Portugal and/or Castille supporting independence.

But, when they don’t get smashed in an independence war, you are right that they just don’t have anywhere to expand. Portugal, Castille, Aragon, and Tunis (when not blocking their expansion as an ally) are generally stronger than them and/or have better options for allies early. And while Morocco’s best games seem to be when the Mameluks beat Tunis early, they now have the Mameluks in their way and the Iberians are just growing stronger.

EUIV is an extremely snowbally game and even a relatively strong tag that at the start is in trouble if it can’t get the ball rolling.

 

[Honon]

Honestly, Morocco under a Human player shouldn't have much of a problem defending against Castile/Portugal with proper navy and building and use of the Fez fort. The Problem is the Moroccan position emphasizes the AI's weaknesses. Morocco doesn't make good use of the Fez fort, doesn't build a competitive navy, and doesn't seek out African/New World expansion.

 

[agonistes]

In a current game, Castille has done nothing except colonize and pu Aragon. Granada has eaten half of Porugal, and Castille is just twiddling her thumbs. Morocco seems amused.

edit: its a weird run... france invaded england and won, but didnt take any land, and is showing no interest in brittany... and russia is refusing to dow horde and kazan

 

[Beagá]

I´ve seen Morocco invade Castille...

 

[Battlex]

In a current game, Castille has done nothing except colonize and pu Aragon. Granada has eaten half of Porugal, and Castille is just twiddling her thumbs. Morocco seems amused.

edit: its a weird run... france invaded england and won, but didnt take any land, and is showing no interest in brittany... and russia is refusing to dow horde and kazan

Britanny will stick around if the worried about claims event doesn't fire enough. Hopefully Iberia will conquer the North African coast less now that truces stop you being raided, now just to get rid of Portugal's a historic carribean mission and we might get more realistic America

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

Daily reminder that Castile gets a whopping +15% Land Morale for conquering the North Moroccan coast (Doesn't help the fact they get claims on North Africa after taking Granada, which usually happens by 1455)
This means that after the first war, a Castilian victory over Morocco tips the balance irreversibly in Castile's favour (which already starts the game stronger and will snowball into far stronger) and leads to an innevitable Yellow North Africa.

Historically Castile literally only conquered Melilla from Morocco (during this game's timeframe) in 1497, and according to the treaty of Tordesillas, Morocco was entirely under the Portuguese sphere of influence and claimed by Portugal (The Conquest of Melilla happened before Tordesillas was officialized by the Pope, in 1505), so really the conflict should be exclusively between Portugal and Morocco (Which is a far more balanced conflict), like it was historically, Castile shouldn't be able to get claims via mission there so easily, if at all.

Its actually weird how Castile's missions are far more geared towards a conquest of Morocco than Portugal's, and far more rewarding as well, despite the conquest of Morocco being an exclusively Portuguese ambition (and partial reality).

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Well, conversely it seems to me like there's a small, but not negligible chance of the Ottomans allying/guaranteeing Granada on Day 1 meaning they never fully conquer Andalusia.

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

Well, conversely it seems to me like there's a small, but not negligible chance of the Ottomans allying/guaranteeing Granada on Day 1 meaning they never fully conquer Andalusia.

But the Ottoman AI will not be able to send troops into Iberia to support Granada against Castile.
I've seen the Ottomans allying Granada often but Castile just sits on Granada for long enough to white peace the Ottomans.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

But the Ottoman AI will not be able to send troops into Iberia to support Granada against Castile.
I've seen the Ottomans allying Granada often but Castile just sits on Granada for long enough to white peace the Ottomans.

I've seen them march right over to Iberia to take out Castile. It's not common but it does happen.