Ever wonder why we have a 6 Mechbay Leopard, but can only drop 4 Mechs into Battle?

[Warspectre]

I always found it a bit funny how for all the talk of clan honor they still have to have that one extra 'Mech over those darn "dishonorable" IS Freeborns.

Actually, when Clans bid for the honor of combat, they win the bid by reducing the assets they commit to battle, and the Clan with the least amount of assets promised to commit wins, so its entirely possible that to fight a lance of IS freebirth, a Clan might only commit a partial Star or even a solitary mech.

 

[Marauder3D]

I don't have my ancient TRO 3025 handy, but I think the old artwork had the 2 Aerospace fighter doors further back and higher up on the fuselage. Mechs wouldn't be able to jump out from that position, because they would be laying horizontal.

But hey, this is Sci-Fi fantasy, so its all handwavium until we crank up the dilithium crystals and warp/jump/hyperspace around, right?

 

[General Lee High]

Hmm so first of all this is BattleTech not Mechwarrior or MWO. With that said the canon Leopard only carries 4 Mechs and 2 Aerospace fighters period. In BT TT Canon you can convert the fighter bays to carry vehicles, but there is no mention of there every being additional Mechbays added in any known variant of the Leopard.

The Clan Broadsword is the "upgraded"/"evolution" of the Leopard and modified to carry 5 Mechs and no Aerospace fighters, because there just ain't enough room in the ship for both.

References: BattleTech Technical Readout: 3025, BattleTech Technical Readout: 3057, and Sarna.net

Real World this is HBS's game and since Jordan W. is involved and he literally invented BattleTech, if he wants to add additional Mech Bays to the Leopard so be it. Since it doesn't appear that Aerospace fighters are being used in the game at all at least in what campaigns we have seen, it makes sense that we have some type of specially converted Leopard modified to meet game needs. What I would like to see is that this specially modified Leopard at some point be explained and added to the canon for future use. Frankly explaining it is all to simple... "LOSTECH"

example explaination:

During the Reunification War the SDLF saw a need for Long Range Recon Units to have additional mechs available as well as ungraded field repair facilities when operating behind enemy lines. Boeing Interstellar meant this need with the Leopard XL....etc etc etc
All these dropships were thought to have left with SDLF forces during the Exodus and the factories producing them were destroyed in the First Succession War, etc etc
However our intrepid mercenary company found this one in the Periphery....passed down from generation to generation though the noble house we were a part off....was awarded for exceptional service to yada yada yada etc.

Just my two cents.

 

[_Sohei_]

It would not have to be a Lostech variant. It could simply be a contemporary modification common for mercenary companies. Some things are rearranged to squeeze in two mechs in modified cargo modules, empty boxes with modular clamps for securing the mech and a fold down jump seat with a harness on the wall for the pilot. Other needs would have to be shared from the mech bay modules. There could be barely enough room for the mech to step out through the adjoining mech bay and door.

 

[P."Windfall"Bowman]

"What? But Skippy said, we could rig up the magnetic catapult launch system, that's usually used to launch fighters in athmosphere, as a fast deployment system. We'd just have to remember: Mech's feet first...
What? The Leopard doesn't has a launch system?
Aaah, never mind!
SKIPPY! Put that wrench down and step away from that Gauss Rifle..."

 

[General Lee High]

It would not have to be a Lostech variant. It could simply be a contemporary modification common for mercenary companies. Some things are rearranged to squeeze in two mechs in modified cargo modules, empty boxes with modular clamps for securing the mech and a fold down jump seat with a harness on the wall for the pilot. Other needs would have to be shared from the mech bay modules. There could be barely enough room for the mech to step out through the adjoining mech bay and door.

I agree that would be a even more simpler solution to resolve the debate, but it does ignore the technical information provided in the source books regarding the Dropship. In order to modify the ship for the Mech to even stand up would literally mean major structure modifications that IMHO would be beyond the scope of most if not all Mercenary companies. Not to mention if it was something that could be done someone would have already done it "historically". Also with the explanation above you open the floor for continuing debate of "I'm carrying x number of mechs, why can't I use x number of mechs", cause in the end if you have it on board, assembled and usable, there is no reason for you not to land and unload ALL your mechs.

Now like I said I'm just thinking in terms of how to add this modification into canon "realistically" with a spec sheet, "history", and anecdotal information for future source book updates. Someone, somewhere, is going to say to the GM (Game Master) hey I been playing the new Battletech Game and I want to use that cool new Leopard in the TT campaign. Again if modifications on that level were available, there would be way more variants to choose from and way more different classes of dropships to use. The whole gist of the original game was the Inner Sphere no longer had the capacity to make new dropship designs and this would certainly HAVE to be a new design not just a modification.

@stjobe thanks (removed incorrect information concerning tonnage) However you would still need to redesign the structure in order to accommodate 2 additional mechs even if you could put them in there laying down.

Just saying it's not canon it's not just a modification, it HAS to be a completely new design. Basically a "Stretch Leopard" for lack of a better way to describe it. Hell there you go, some chopped a Leo in half and then added in the another section from a different Leo in the middle to stretch it out far enough to accommodate additional mechs. However the additional space obviously doesn't have additional doors otherwise there is no good argument for way you can't field those additional mechs.

Damn I love BT, this is the most writing I have done outside of performance reviews lol.

 

[Ian Wagner]

Things that make you go, "Hmm..."

The other two are stored prone where the ASFs would normally be..

 

[Hasler]

Sarna provides some explanation of this.
"It is also not unknown for Leopard owners to remove some or all of the 'Mech and aerospace fighter cubicles for 150 tons of cargo space each, to the point of simply using the Leopard as a cargo ship."

The ship still has only 4 bay openings. I guess the biggest problem would be how do I mech from bay 1 to the Aux storage bay with only moving internally.

 

[stjobe]

To remove the Aerospace Fighter Cubicles 300 tons each and add in 2 additional Mech Cubicles 600 tons each you are adding an additional 600 tons overall

No, you're misreading the data. There's four 'Mech Bays @ 150 tons each, for a total of 600 tons. There's two Fighter Bays @ 150 tons each, for 300 tons total.

Swapping the Fighter Bays for 'Mech Bays would be a zero-sum affair, tonnage-wise.

 

[General Lee High]

No, you're misreading the data. There's four 'Mech Bays @ 150 tons each, for a total of 600 tons. There's two Fighter Bays @ 150 tons each, for 300 tons total.

Swapping the Fighter Bays for 'Mech Bays would be a zero-sum affair, tonnage-wise.

Thank you Sir I stand corrected.

 

[TaurianMerc]

Exactly what @stjobe says, you can easily swap fighter bays for mech bays it's actually stated to be a common modification for one of the spheroid dropships (going to have to look this up now )

EDIT: damn I type slowly

 

[_Sohei_]

Another explanation, this one a bit crazy: Atlas pulls open the drawer modification that is installed where the aerospace section used to be. Then it picks up the Locust, turns it on its side, and gently places it inside the drawer.

 

[Cepheus]

Aerospace bays have apparently been converted into mech bays.

but they could not change the doors without compromising hull integrity

 

[General Lee High]

Another explanation, this one a bit crazy: Atlas pulls open the drawer modification that is installed where the aerospace section used to be. Then it picks up the Locust, turns it on its side, and gently places it inside the drawer.

Well I'm going to have to agree to this one as an conceed.

Just for something to do while I wait until Tuesday.... I broke out the Battlespace Sourcebook and checked out the Dropship Construction rules. SHAME ON YOU FASA The Leopard violates the RULES!!! According to the construction rules to determine the Engine size of the Dropship you take the Mass x 6.5% and multiple that by the Thrust Value.

So Leopard 1720 tons x 6.5% = 111.8 ton per point of thrust
Leopard Thrust: 4 so 111.8 x 4 = 447.2 however according to source material the Leo's engine is 360 Tons

Even using Clan Technology it's 6.1%!!

So are we saying that Star League Technology was somewhere in the area of 5.233% which would give us 360.0304 rounded to 360 tons?

Although the best Alternate explanation is that no longer having the ability to build the ships using the original materials etc. etc. They just built a bigger version using current era materials and called it a day.

 

[JesterHell]

Really, really hated the introduction of clans into battletech/mechwarrior (talking tabletop here). Talk about unfair. Weapons that did more damage, used less heat, had more range, better targeting systems, and oh by the way, the enemy outnumbers you too. Granted it eventually allowed better weapons on the Inner Sphere side as well, but still. Clans royally upended balance in Battletech (read as "broke" balance).

This is why as someone who hates MP (TT is MP) I really hope they keep MP balance separate from SP balance, I want to struggle against a numerically and technologically superior enemy as I find the turning point (when my side start catching up) to be the most enjoyable aspect of such confrontations.

 

[mork77]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Leopard

The leopard is, according to lore, designed to drop a Lance of four mechs into battle. In some Pictures, you can see the four doors.

"Four 'Mechs and two aerospace fighters constitutes a so-called Air Lance under SLDF doctrine, where one in three lances was an AirLance. The fighter cubicles are often repurposed for cargo storage or other uses instead."

so four you can drop, six you can store.

 

[_Sohei_]

Perhaps only flat pack Ikea brand Mechs can fit in the storage area

 

[Gurachn]

Apologies to the mods for necro-revival of this thread, but I think that now that we have mods (Mission control and Bigger Drops) that allow players to drop up to two full lances, this topic has become very relevant.

These new mods raise the question of how you might be able to get the second lance down to the surface.
Currently I’m running these mods with BEX, and have the necessary upgrades to drop up to 6 mechs.
I know I can fit them all in my Leopard, but the question remains, how do the additional two mechs get out?
Skimming this thread, I know they are stored in the former aerospace bays near the nose, but that there are clearly no separate exits for them.

It seems to me that this shouldn’t really pose any major problem.
Images seem to show the inside of the Leopard as a large open space with individual mech bays.
The Mechwarrior series seem to show that the Dropship lands, the big garage doors open, then the mechs all shuffle out.
So it doesn’t really seem that each mech necessarily needs its own separate door. It may be a bit slower, but why couldn’t the mechs stuck in the old Aerospace hangars just wait until the guys next to them vacate, then shuffle out the middle doors?

Of course this, only deals with getting to the surface by Leopard taxi.
We could also just pack them in boxes (with ablative cocoon, JJs/chutes) and chuck them out a loading hatch on the Argo (Drop pods).
It seems this can be done either from orbit or from low altitude.
We see drop drop pods used in Urban missions, so I could image those are Argo dropped.
In other maps we see leopards coming low, flaring and somehow just dumping of their passengers without actually landing? How does that work? Mech fast-roping?
I’m not sure how we can justify more than 4 mechs could manage this.

Perhaps some of the lore hounds could weigh in on this?

 

[Axterix13]

Images seem to show the inside of the Leopard as a large open space with individual mech bays.
The Mechwarrior series seem to show that the Dropship lands, the big garage doors open, then the mechs all shuffle out.
So it doesn’t really seem that each mech necessarily needs its own separate door. It may be a bit slower, but why couldn’t the mechs stuck in the old Aerospace hangars just wait until the guys next to them vacate, then shuffle out the middle doors?

That assumes that the hangers allow you to easily shuffle down to the mech bay. They most likely can't. That's because when you launch the fighters, you need to open their bay doors, and you probably don't want to vent any more of the ship than you have to. Additionally, damage control reasons would be another reason to compartmentalize. So there might be a large door designed to let you get stuff in storage to the fighters for repair reasons, but if so, it probably isn't big enough to fit a mech through. Beyond that, a fighter bay is horizontal, while a mech bay is veritical. A mech most likely can't belly crawl his way out. So you'd need some sort of bed that can slide out into the mech bay, then turn to put a mech in there on his feet, rather than his back. Now maybe, maybe you can change the insides even more. So that you have more vertical room, rather than those horizontal fighter bays. But that's even more work. The short of it is that it would require a major overhaul of the Leopard to make such a thing possible. And keep in mind, this in a setting (in 3025) where even certain basic weapon types have to be swapped out because they simply don't have enough.

Now, storing spare mechs there, that's much easier. On the ground, you can get the support needed to make it work. Cranes, dock equipment, and so on. And you can do it when you have time. And in space, you can take advantage of the lack of gravity to move mechs back and forth between the fighter and mech bays.

Hence why drop 4, have 6 at the ready makes somewhat sense, lore-wise, and expanded drops make more sense when they give you a second Leopard.

 

[Mordray]

Uh... the first upgrade you get from the Bigger Drops series of upgrades is a second, barely functional, leopard... sadly the art doesn't show it... it's a stealthy pile I'll give it that.