Even More Weirdness

[Palmerdale]

I'm playing an extended game with Italy. I joined the Axis and went to war with the Allies, but have refused all calls against the Comintern. It's early 1942, and my extended campaign in Africa and Saudi Arabia has turned up two more things which I can't explain.

• Infrastructure. I pushed hard on the British in Africa, but ran into the dreaded 'Too Low Infrastructure' issue, which stalled my drive south of Mombassa. But I got a very active Japan in this game, and they jumped in and invaded Dar Es Salam, and proceeded to romp across all the Infrastructure = 1 provinces that I can't even move into. Japan is already into the Dutch territories in the mid-continent. What gives? I've tried moving several types of units into the now-Japanese controlled provinces, and can see Japanese units periodically moving through these areas (specifically in Jinja -- there was a Japanese Marine in the area while I tried to move into the area).

• Conquering territory. I started pushing the British off of the Saudi Arabian peninsula. But Japan had invaded the port in Yemen earlier and stopped. So I attacked the British in Aden. I landed a corps of Marines there and started driving into Oman. I put a Wargoal on Oman of Conquer before I started. As I was moving into Oman, I noticed that the territory I had takes was showing in UK and Japan's colors. I think this has something to do with conquering a province adjacent to an already conquered province. Even Oman was showing in Oman and Japan colors, and there wasn't a Japanese unit on the peninsula. It was crediting my territory gains as Japan's.

Has anyone else encountered either of these situations, or have an idea of what is going on? Thanks for any insight and help.

 

[Kovax]

The latter issue probably depends on where your supplies were tracing from. If your units were getting Japanese supplies (through the port at Yemen), then Japan would get credit for any provinces your units take. Check the "supplied from...." status line for your individual units.

The first issue is tough, since I didn't think the AI could move units through Infra 1 provinces unless forced into them. Maybe Marines are an exception, but I don't think so. Normally, there's an accessible province that you can take which will change control of the low-infra province.

 

[Count Blue]

No unit shall pass through level 1 infra, never.
At least thats what the book says.

Level 1 infra provinces get sometime taken by conquering a neighbouring level 2 (or higher) province.

 

[markkur]

The latter issue probably depends on where your supplies were tracing from. If your units were getting Japanese supplies (through the port at Yemen), then Japan would get credit for any provinces your units take. Check the "supplied from...." status line for your individual units.

Didn't know that one.

What about timing of war-goals...does it matter?. i.e. If Japan declares Conquer on a nation before I declare for a Region of that nation will I get the one region when Japan defeats the nation? Or must I have declared my region first?

 

[Palmerdale]

No unit shall pass through level 1 infra, never.
At least thats what the book says.

Level 1 infra provinces get sometime taken by conquering a neighbouring level 2 (or higher) province.

I saw at least 3 Japanese units move through Jinja, and I could see that the province was at 1 infrastructure. I tried to move a Marine and a Motorized Infrantry into the zone, with no success.

 

[Palmerdale]

Didn't know that one.

What about timing of war-goals...does it matter?. i.e. If Japan declares Conquer on a nation before I declare for a Region of that nation will I get the one region when Japan defeats the nation? Or must I have declared my region first?

That was my first thought as well, Markkur. I didn't make a move against Oman because the Japanese were already there, so I just went straight for Oman. Looking back at the map, I see that Al Hudaydah is adjacent to Aden, with Ta'izz adjacent to both. I invaded by moving to Eastern Bab al Mandab then invading Aden. It redirected my invasion to Ta'izz (part of Oman proper). I took that province then Aden (overland), with both becoming Japanese territory.

The Japanese were in Al Hudaydah with 1 HQ unit. As I moved around, the British HQ unit in the area moved into Oman, and the Japanese moved a MAR to deal with the HQ, and took the rest of Oman. The Japanese marine never moved into the UK territory between Oman and Yemen.

My invasion force (1x HQ + 4x (2xMAR, AT, ART)) was about to take the Yemen capital before I noticed the odd coloring of the provinces. I do not know why I conquered the Ta'izz province for the Japanese, as I came directly off a boat, and should not have been supplied from the Japanese port. I abandoned that game.

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In another version of this same game, I accepted a call to arms against the Soviets. The Germans and Italy were pushing east from Sevastopol. Everything was being conquered as German territory. I did not conquer any territory for Italy until I staged an Invasion to Batumi before the Germans got there. It did start routing all Italian supply through Batumi, even units that were in German territory (and German territory was not adjacent to Italian territiry at the time). Even a defensive unit in Sevastopol was trying to draw supply from Batumi. As soon as I took that port and stopped drawing supply from Berlin, that offensive push died from supply issues.

I suppose that the supply issue that Kovax suggested could be the cause of this issue, but why was the Ta'izz province taken in the Japanese name directly from an Italian invasion?

 

[Kovax]

What about timing of war-goals...does it matter?. i.e. If Japan declares Conquer on a nation before I declare for a Region of that nation will I get the one region when Japan defeats the nation? Or must I have declared my region first?

You should still gain control, at least until the country surrenders, and after that it depends on the wargoals placed by BOTH countries. If they declare "Conquer", a regional wargoal will take precedence when the country surrenders, and reclaiming cores will always get first priority. In fact, if you place a regional wargoal, you should retain control of any land you actually occupy, even if it's NOT part of that region. If both countries place a regional (or conquer wargoal) for the same territory, then I believe that the first one placed gets priority.

The exceptions are the "historical events" (Fall of France, Bitter Peace, Seize the Coast, etc.), which happen after the other changes and override them. If you place a wargoal for the Caucasus, it will have priority and trigger first, but Germany's Bitter Peace wargoal will then override it, and you'll get nothing. Once again, there are exceptions to the exceptions, so Italy can claim a couple of French provinces along the Italian Alps and they will be recognized by the Fall of France wargoal code when Paris falls and Vichy is created. The "historical" wargoals are one of my biggest issues with the game, since they happen regardless of other factors. For example, if Germany is defeated, parts of it may end up being granted to certain countries even if they were never at war with Germany in the game.

 

[SirArthur]

I know one possibility for units in level 1 infrastructure. Must be rebels or rebel type infantry (I guess partisans). For some strange reasons they can move inside in some weird retreat, but they do not get out. Happened to me a few times with unaligned partisans.

 

[marxianTJ]

I'm not super familiar with the INFRA there, but as far as I know, you're still capable of moving into provinces that have 0-1 INFRA that are *supposed* to have more infra, but which are repairing. So say, we've got a 4 INFRA province, fighting takes it to 0, you can still move about in, and through, the 0-1 infra province, whereas all provinces that start out at 0-1 are impassable excepting for retreats.