Good spot. Yes, I hope that is why. Both because it would explain it and because a penalty to speed if lacking motorized is nice.
Even infantry techs are not a no brainer
- Thread starter Denkt
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Division builder. I'll see if I can find the exact spot in the video.
Huh, 1.5 km/h - worse than I remember. I notice the division isn't fully equipped yet, maybe that's why.
It is not the division builder. It is the actual one division selected. Either having only 11% of the equipment affects the speed of unit, or maybe it's location where it is located affects it. EIther way, I doubt they would leave such bug into release.
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I was remembering a single second of an hour of video footage I had seen weeks previously. Cut me some slack 
USA invested like 10-15 factories into infantry equipment while invested atleast 50 factories into Sherman production and like 300 factories into making heavy bombers if we try to get the real numbers in HOI4 terms.
One of the problems of the inf weapons spam is, the pure lack of the equipment, in the last WWW France had a shortage of 18k inf weapons, thats pure nonsense from the historical point, France had large stocks of WW I vintage weapons, even the UK used largely WW I artillery and inf weapons in France (1940).
If you have this discrepancy combined with few military factories, you has no real choice to build tanks or other stuff, as the game forces you to build inf weapons to equip your existing inf Divisions or face the consequences.
If you have this discrepancy combined with few military factories, you has no real choice to build tanks or other stuff, as the game forces you to build inf weapons to equip your existing inf Divisions or face the consequences.
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This inbalance is due to starting with a defecit of about 20k inf equipment. So it is only logical to bring negative stockpiles back up to par and than begin to produce other equipment.
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It probably would make sense to have all the majors start with full stocks of WW1 equipment. You guys are right, every soldier should have a gun and a couple bullets in 36.
I guess we'll see if this second part actually happens.
That said, devs have posted that infantry was overpowered for sure during the Germany/UK WWW and that unit stats have since been rebalanced, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I wouldn't put much stock in the wiki at the moment guys. Its not even displaying unit ORG correctly and most of the details are speculative from WWW's at best. I dont think it is ahistorical to suggest that infantry is by far the most common unit either. They are extremely efficient for their cost of production, especially in defense, and are an essential force multiplier that adds defensiveness and organization to other harder hitting units.
You may commit a lot of factories to them, but you get a lot out of those factories for the amount of resources invested. Even or especially at higher equipment levels. The main drawback for spamming lower tier weapons against higher ones is the incredible manpower cost of being outclassed in every battle and having more manpower committed and at risk of being encircled and destroyed. Most nations cannot sustain massive losses for years on end and will end up with massive penalties to their production from having to max out their manpower laws.
The best part about them is they mostly just use steel, something most nations have a huge abundance of and build very very rapidly compared to say, artillery. In the france WWW I think its doubtful changing his factories from 17 weapons 1 and 3 artillery to 10 weapons and 10 artillery he would have been able to support nearly as many divisions on the front line, especially once the attrition of combat begins. Dont forget that artillery do not add to defensiveness of a unit in any appreciable way and these units will be much easier to break, even if they will cause proportionally more casualties for the time they are in combat.
Also in the Poland stream I think we did not see tanks because Germany has to mass a lot of divisions in order to enact its historical focus. At least in the early WWW's something like 90 divisions were needed for anschluss, starting from something like 40. That meant about 50 divisions had to be created in just two years and most of them would be infantry.
Historically Germany fielded an army of 1.5 million men with less than 3000 tanks.
EDIT: The light tanks you are seeing in the video are most likely out of supply and/or moving through rough terrain. Units in low supply move at a snails pace, sometimes at a fraction of a kmph and need to be strategically redeployed out.
You may commit a lot of factories to them, but you get a lot out of those factories for the amount of resources invested. Even or especially at higher equipment levels. The main drawback for spamming lower tier weapons against higher ones is the incredible manpower cost of being outclassed in every battle and having more manpower committed and at risk of being encircled and destroyed. Most nations cannot sustain massive losses for years on end and will end up with massive penalties to their production from having to max out their manpower laws.
The best part about them is they mostly just use steel, something most nations have a huge abundance of and build very very rapidly compared to say, artillery. In the france WWW I think its doubtful changing his factories from 17 weapons 1 and 3 artillery to 10 weapons and 10 artillery he would have been able to support nearly as many divisions on the front line, especially once the attrition of combat begins. Dont forget that artillery do not add to defensiveness of a unit in any appreciable way and these units will be much easier to break, even if they will cause proportionally more casualties for the time they are in combat.
Also in the Poland stream I think we did not see tanks because Germany has to mass a lot of divisions in order to enact its historical focus. At least in the early WWW's something like 90 divisions were needed for anschluss, starting from something like 40. That meant about 50 divisions had to be created in just two years and most of them would be infantry.
Historically Germany fielded an army of 1.5 million men with less than 3000 tanks.
EDIT: The light tanks you are seeing in the video are most likely out of supply and/or moving through rough terrain. Units in low supply move at a snails pace, sometimes at a fraction of a kmph and need to be strategically redeployed out.
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So, if @Denkt is right, then it might behoove certain players to decide to focus their research on techs that can affect combat more per factory than infantry weapons. That cost he listed is substantial. Focusing on ART and AT, while letting the infantry use their old weapons that we know how to make easily might make more sense. If ART and AT are going to kill more infantry and tanks per battalion, then maybe that's where the focus should go.
I'm wondering, though, if that makes sense. Many powers were using WWI stocks during the war, but all of the majors put time and effort into developing and deploying better infantry gear packages. Italy tried to update the Carcano before the war, but failed to produce very many. Japan tried to create the Type 4 rifle, but they screwed up development and never built many (and it wouldn't have mattered by 1945 regardless).
Or is that the point of the exercise? Italy and Japan have to pay the entry cost, or they get stuck with crappier equipment and never get too far down the "awesome infantry" road?
I'm wondering, though, if that makes sense. Many powers were using WWI stocks during the war, but all of the majors put time and effort into developing and deploying better infantry gear packages. Italy tried to update the Carcano before the war, but failed to produce very many. Japan tried to create the Type 4 rifle, but they screwed up development and never built many (and it wouldn't have mattered by 1945 regardless).
Or is that the point of the exercise? Italy and Japan have to pay the entry cost, or they get stuck with crappier equipment and never get too far down the "awesome infantry" road?
The WW1 weapons are probably represented by "basic equipment".
As we saw in the Japan WWW - where China was mostly using that - infantry with basic equipment gets slaughtered by infantry with infantry equipment 1.
As we saw in the Japan WWW - where China was mostly using that - infantry with basic equipment gets slaughtered by infantry with infantry equipment 1.
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Most used is not the same thing as most production invested. An infantry battalion can be supplied with equipment that cost 50 production while a tank battalion cost like 500 production to supply. This mean most nations only need to invest a little production to produce the needed equipment for their infantry.
Infantry techs comes in two forms. One are the equipment unlocks, equipment I, equipment II and equipment III who are substantial different in their quality and cost. The second are just pure improvements who give bonuses at no added cost and applies to all infantry equipments. These are support weapons, anti tank weapons and infantry equipment improvement.
Artillery techs are very similar to infantry techs.
Research is a very limited resource in HOI4 even for the major powers. There is also the thing about production efficiency, my calcualtions are that it take one year to go from 10% efficiency to 100% efficiency (with an efficiency gain of 1,7% a week). Researching or not research infantry technologies are not a question about quality vs quantity, it is a question about if these technologies will help me more then what technologies I could otherwise gotten. The price to develop the infantry technologies are hardly trivial, my estimate is for the infantry techs you could have gotten a whole air or naval doctrine given that one infantry tech seems to have roughly the same cost as a naval or air doctrine.
Lets think like this, how much use do you have of an air doctrine if you are not going to invest into an airforce. I would say very little. The same you can say about a navy doctrine if you are not going to build up a navy. This is probably not uncommon for a minor country who can not afford either a navy or airforce. But for a major nation like USA Im pretty sure you are going to want an air and naval doctrine and that these are for USA more valuable then the infantry techs.
Some of you say that Im going to take more losses because I use equipment I but this forget about what do you pay to get your infantry techs. A poor airforce that can not do much? A navy that don't know the modern principle of war? Still using WW1 artillery, because in some way you are going to pay for your infantry techs and what if what you pay for your infantry techs could have been more helpful then your infantry techs then you have made a poor trade.
Infantry techs comes in two forms. One are the equipment unlocks, equipment I, equipment II and equipment III who are substantial different in their quality and cost. The second are just pure improvements who give bonuses at no added cost and applies to all infantry equipments. These are support weapons, anti tank weapons and infantry equipment improvement.
Artillery techs are very similar to infantry techs.
Research is a very limited resource in HOI4 even for the major powers. There is also the thing about production efficiency, my calcualtions are that it take one year to go from 10% efficiency to 100% efficiency (with an efficiency gain of 1,7% a week). Researching or not research infantry technologies are not a question about quality vs quantity, it is a question about if these technologies will help me more then what technologies I could otherwise gotten. The price to develop the infantry technologies are hardly trivial, my estimate is for the infantry techs you could have gotten a whole air or naval doctrine given that one infantry tech seems to have roughly the same cost as a naval or air doctrine.
Lets think like this, how much use do you have of an air doctrine if you are not going to invest into an airforce. I would say very little. The same you can say about a navy doctrine if you are not going to build up a navy. This is probably not uncommon for a minor country who can not afford either a navy or airforce. But for a major nation like USA Im pretty sure you are going to want an air and naval doctrine and that these are for USA more valuable then the infantry techs.
Some of you say that Im going to take more losses because I use equipment I but this forget about what do you pay to get your infantry techs. A poor airforce that can not do much? A navy that don't know the modern principle of war? Still using WW1 artillery, because in some way you are going to pay for your infantry techs and what if what you pay for your infantry techs could have been more helpful then your infantry techs then you have made a poor trade.
How much does major country really need?
Airforce, naval and land doctrine, and Industry branch are closer to mandatory, but aside from that, one can pick and chose any kind of troops combination.
Not everyone needs doctrines at the same time in game, and focus trees do provide bonuses there.
Can you give us any rough ideas on how much research do we really have? What can realistically be researched by 1939 and by 1941?