Even infantry techs are not a no brainer

[Bap]

Question: Is it useful to use hindsight and do not produce any equipment I at all, fast-tech the techs to Infantry Equipment III or whatever, and as soon as you have Inf Equipment III(before 39 preferably) pump it out in masses?

What has been stated is that if the increase in Attack values is a smaller percentage then the increase in equipment cost you may be better off just producing more infantry battalions. But eventually the front width (or supply limit) will be reached and then the better equipment has the advantage.
It doesn`t help that we haven`t seen armour performing so we could compare infantry to it. Something seemed awfully wrong in the Poland WWW where Germany`s armour just vanished and the campaign turned into an infantry slugfest. Some bug perhaps? I`ve just been playing that scenario (as Poland) in HOI3 and it`s pretty impossible for Poland to stop the panzer divisions and last more than a month. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[amalric de g.]

What has been stated is that if the increase in Attack values is a smaller percentage then the increase in equipment cost you may be better off just producing more infantry battalions. But eventually the front width (or supply limit) will be reached and then the better equipment has the advantage.
It doesn`t help that we haven`t seen armour performing so we could compare infantry to it. Something seemed awfully wrong in the Poland WWW where Germany`s armour just vanished and the campaign turned into an infantry slugfest. Some bug perhaps? I`ve just been playing that scenario (as Poland) in HOI3 and it`s pretty impossible for Poland to stop the panzer divisions and last more than a month. Anyone else noticed this?

I saw it too in the stream, sometimes you could see a lonely tank Division behind the front line, but never saw a tank division attacking.

 

[Darkath]

In HOI III, tanks were nice to have in Europe, but weren't all that useful in the Far East. Japan benefited from maybe a couple light tank divisions in HOI III, but anything beyond that and you started sacrificing a lot of capabilities on the air and naval power side. With the new division system that allows true integration between infantry and armour, a battalion of light tanks might be nice to have for the stronger island garrisons. I will have to experiment.

In HOI4 that tradeoff seems less apparent though, since Naval IC is separate from Military IC. I guess there's still a trade off with air power, but developping a navy was a huge drag on IC in HOI3, but here it seems you can still build boats without worrying about producing less planes or tanks. Of course you will still have to decide whether to build more military factories or naval dockyards.

 

[Denkt]

Question: Is it useful to use hindsight and do not produce any equipment I at all, fast-tech the techs to Infantry Equipment III or whatever, and as soon as you have Inf Equipment III(before 39 preferably) pump it out in masses? Since for Germany for example there will be no huge war until they start it, and until then their Division can be supplied with no inf equipment at all.

Equipment III is 1942 tech so it would be very hard to skip equipment I and II.

You are right.
but i dont think the surplus of equipment and those few additional infanterie divisions can compensate the lack of good equipment. depending on your manpower you have to set a harsher conspription law, which deacreases your factory output.

This forget about that there is other stuff then infantry and that is what make using equipment I possible.

The cost to research the infantry techs could probably be enough for most if not all of the techs in a naval or air doctrine so we are not talking about a smal research investment. And in most cases as a major nation I think I take a navy or air doctrine over infantry techs.

 

[wright1331]

Infantry is workhorse/backbone of armies.In an example of self sufficient (enough production to cover equipment losses) nation,gaining land (thus new factories) allow more production capacity to modernize infantry's equipment. This nation can choose not to modernize but increase number of forces and still use older equipment.But what happens if manpower is scarce?For example Daniel's Hungary will benefit more from better equipment than pure quantity.

I am in agreement with this statement.

If you might run into MP shortages, then you will want to protect this asset as much as you can by giving them the best chance of survival.
However, is you play a country like JAP, CHI, or the SOV then using old equipment that you have a production bonus for might be the best choice since sheer numbers is in your favor.

 

[Denkt]

Daniel invest extreme amount of resources into infantry equipment which leave him with basically nothing else.

 

[panzerzombie]

Infantry and AT then.

Actually, I can't wait to try USSR. They were so big in previous HOIs that I was always too intimidated to try it. But with some AI help, I think I could pull it off in HOI4.

Yep, I never even touched russia in HOI3, I got my hands full already with yermanys and yapans OOB and HQs. Now with the BP thingy I might try it some time.

 

[seattle]

If infantry with arty-attachment isn't OP, then HoI4 will have already found a better solution than its predecessors.

 

[Denkt]

If infantry with arty-attachment isn't OP, then HoI4 will have already found a better solution than its predecessors.

It is not OP because it is to slow to encircle enemies. Massed armor and artillery combined with a strong airforce will destroy such divisions.

 

[Gort11]

It is not OP because it is to slow to encircle enemies. Massed armor and artillery combined with a strong airforce will destroy such divisions.

You always trot out this stuff with absolutely nothing to back it up with except your own wishful thinking. The only playthroughs we've seen of HoI4 have been people doing infantry stomps.

Germany, Japan, Hungary... every game has been 90% infantry, and even when other units were involved they were just lumped into the infantry mob, given the same orders, and forgotten.

I'll be very happy if your statements happen to be true, but you really have zero evidence of it being the case. From what we've been shown, churning out the infantry is the key to victory in HoI4 - everything else is just mucking about.

 

[Denkt]

You always trot out this stuff with absolutely nothing to back it up with except your own wishful thinking.

It is a slow division and we all know what happens if you encircle the enemy divisions. The only thing that is slower is super heavy armor.

 

[Gort11]

It is a slow division and we all know what happens if you encircle the enemy divisions. The only thing that is slower is super heavy armor.

And yet Daniel does just fine with nothing but infantry, pulling off plenty of encirclements along the way.

 

[Denkt]

And yet Daniel does just fine with nothing but infantry, pulling off plenty of encirclements along the way.

If you mean taking more casulties in a year or two then USA took in the whole war is a fine performance then yes and many of Daniels encirclements come from pushing the enemy to the edge of their border.

 

[Bap]

With the attack delay gone perhaps overruns will be much easier to pull off and a speed advantage become more important.

 

[Denkt]

With the attack delay gone perhaps overruns will be much easier to pull off and a speed advantage become more important.

That is definitely something that will help mobile divisions.

 

[Gort11]

If you mean taking more casulties in a year or two then USA took in the whole war is a fine performance then yes and many of Daniels encirclements come from pushing the enemy to the edge of their border.

And when casualties actually limit someone's ability to wage war, this criticism will be meaningful. As it is, manpower has been only a theoretical limitation. Defeating the USSR and UK while fighting the USA to a bloody standstill is a pretty good showing compared to real-world Germany.

 

[Denkt]

And when casualties actually limit someone's ability to wage war, this criticism will be meaningful. As it is, manpower has been only a theoretical limitation. Defeating the USSR and UK while fighting the USA to a bloody standstill is a pretty good showing compared to real-world Germany.

That is the old stream before the artillery changes.

 

[1337JiveTurkey]

The choice of how to proceed really depends on the comparative cost between research and production among other things.

A country with a small industrial base but the ability to perform a lot of research can pick up technologies that they're not going to use for everybody to get the most out of their money. A country in the opposite situation needs to take an all-or-nothing approach. They either decide that almost everybody gets the new equipment or don't bother researching the technology in the first place and plan accordingly.

Switching over units to the new equipment requires switching over production lines assuming the number of lines is going to stay the same. That means that production rate will drop, so it's necessary to have stockpiles to cover the gap, but the rate will recover over time. A country with no stockpiles that's not producing a surplus isn't able to switch without running out. Countries with large stockpiles can draw down the stockpiles to different levels depending on how many units are retaining their current equipment. If everybody's switching, the stockpiles ideally should be zero at the end of the process. That can be managed by switching production lines over time depending on where stockpile levels are.

 

[Gort11]

That is the old stream before the artillery changes.

All we know about those is their intent. They still weren't enough to actually convince Daniel to focus on artillery in the Red France stream. He had what, seventeen factories building infantry equipment, while tanks and artillery got one apiece?

 

[Denkt]

A country with a small industrial base but the ability to perform a lot of research can pick up technologies that they're not going to use for everybody to get the most out of their money. A country in the opposite situation needs to take an all-or-nothing approach. They either decide that almost everybody gets the new equipment or don't bother researching the technology in the first place and plan accordingly.

All countries have more or less the same research capacity, the huge difference in research capacity in the older games are gone.

All we know about those is their intent. They still weren't enough to actually convince Daniel to focus on artillery in the Red France stream. He had what, seventeen factories building infantry equipment, while tanks and artillery got one apiece?

Which I very much doubt is optimal play because we have quite decent knowledge about the stat difference between the different equipments. Sure he may win but it will likely be extremely costly although it depend alot how the enemy will react to the fortifications.