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Petrarca said:
OOC: The law enforcement budget seems drastically too high. The United States spends US$ 4.1 billion on the FBI, its premier law enforcement agency. The Department of Justice, with its 100,000+ employees, spends $22 billion on the coterie of American agencies and aid to state & local police. With these figures, spending more than half of the defense budget on law enforcement looks rather, well, ridiculous.
Petrarca said:
I still think the budget too high, if not from the federal example then from its proportion to the defense budget.
As Blade! pointed out, the US federal government accounts for only a part of law enforcement funding. Just as importantly, given that the US has a gigantic defense budget (both in absolute and relative terms), I don't think the US law enforcement to defense budget ratio is particularly useful as a guideline for Eutopia. :)
 

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Friedrich II said:
We are prohibited by not being centrists. floating votes do not come to us. we do not like floating votes :D
no one knew you so you got few, everyone knew me. son of a famous man and endorced by other peoples and i campaigned with many speaches despite being solo :D :p
 

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The_Hawk said:
Agreed. Eutopia has about as many men under arms as Sweden, but pays more than twice as much (even if you discount the tech investment budget). I've seen some figures that are higher (like here, but not by much. (And these figures are a few years out of date anyway.) Given that the Eutopian military is largely conscripts, the Swedes probably gets better men for less money, too.

Of course, what Sweden doesn't have is a massive, outdated (and thus probably largely useless) navy to support. All they've got these days is a trio of minelayers in the 2000-3000 ton range, and a double handful of small attack boats: See here. Perhaps the NA will think about slashing the military budget and demobilizing some or all of the navy... if they get around to passing a budget this time... :D

The budget should have never been that large to begin with. Even with our Navy, we shouldn't be spending more than Austraia, which has a very good army and Navy.
 

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Chipchat2 said:
The budget should have never been that large to begin with.
But it has been. Consider it one of those nifty gameplay opportunities. ;)
 

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Mel, what would happen in this, say, theoretical case.

The ESRP wins both the presidential election and a majority in the National Assembly.

The president of the ESRP, now the nation,--let's call him Sergei-- decides it's time to act.

He gets some of his toughies to say, burn the National Assembly building. Evidence is planted linking this burning to the CC and ETE.

He calls an emergency meeting of the Assembly where he makes a motion to rescind the Constituition and set up an emergency government to deal with the situation. The NA approves. It's first and last act is to suspend parliament and make Sergei absolute ruler.

How would the Mods react?

Just an innocent question, not like I've thought long and hard about this. :rolleyes:
 

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Romulus Augustulus said:
The ENP with 2 members got twice as many seats as the E.T.E

*ahem* There should be a rule concerning only active players voting , but I digress, and admit that I really dont care all that much

:rolleyes: :rofl:

There used to be a lot of complaint against the old CRE about this, because they had at least ten members who all voted and showed up when we had roll calls, but never posted anywhere else. Quite frustrating. It caused an alliance between the CC and ESRP if you can imagine that happening. Crazy times, back in term 3.
 

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Josephus I said:
He calls an emergency meeting of the Assembly where he makes a motion to rescind the Constituition and set up an emergency government to deal with the situation.

Definitionally, a Constitution cannot be rescinded -- it is, to use the U.S. terminology, "the supreme law of the land". Since theoretically the High Court would maintain jurisdiction to review the President's actions and would presumptively rule them unconstitutional, I'd say that idea is DOA.

Of course, if you blew up the High Court building instead... :D
 

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Josephus I said:
How would the Mods react?
Well, it depends - which day of the week would the coup d'etat be happening? Mondays you'd get a meteor strike (quick and clean solution; it's the first day after the weekend and we can't be bothered :D). Tuesdays a heavy localized earthquake that wipes out the entire political elite in Eutopia City. Godzilla is on duty Wednesday and Thursday. Friday the parallel universe that contains the putsch timeline collapses. Saturday it's a choice between 3.57 million disgruntled citizens (plus one toddler) with pitchforks and a bad case of Montezuma's revenge; both will incapacitate the President indefinitely.

We haven't decided on Sunday yet. :p
 

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Melanchthon said:
...

We haven't decided on Sunday yet. :p


Zombie Blade! rises from the grave to gain vengence on his executioners! :p
 

unmerged(10397)

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You know, I was just thinking about when I first got involved with Eutopia. I spent term 2 battling with then-VP Josephus about my racetrack, then before I knew it I was president and the nation was in revolt. After arresting Jools for no apparent reason, I spent the last days of presidency selling postcards, and getting almost assassinated by crazy Zaphod Beeblebrox. In between, Tulp tried to convince me to send the marines around crushing dissent, and I had various battles with the ESRP. Someday, I intend to write a long essay on my time in Eutopian politics, then maybe retire and sell some more postcards.
 

Petrarca

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Melanchthon said:
Just as importantly, given that the US has a gigantic defense budget (both in absolute and relative terms), I don't think the US law enforcement to defense budget ratio is particularly useful as a guideline for Eutopia. :)
I wasn't comparing it to the United States' ratio, but rather, trying to say that crimefighting isn't that expensive compared to universal healthcare or national defense. In fact, it's dirt cheap.

But if that's how the figures are going to stay, I'll ask for a contract to start a PR campaign advertising EUtopia as the safest (and most heavily policed :)) country in the world to tourists. :cool:
 

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Eutopia spends $517 per person on defense; a pretty hefty amount, placing at # 19 on the world list (the US is #6 after, not surprisingly, such countries as Israel and Singapore).

France, the UK, and Sweden are all above Eutopia, at #14, #15, and #16, respectively. So, in terms of spending, we have a pretty decent military on paper. If we used that money efficiently, we could have quite a good army.
 

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Melanchthon said:
But it has been. Consider it one of those nifty gameplay opportunities. ;)

So you're saying if we cut the budget to 6 billion, which an army of our quality (bad, but with a navy) would have, it would not affect the armed forces at all, since 8 billion is lying around on somebody's desk?

If so, that should be our first priority, and also recovering the 8 billion we wasted this budget session.
 

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Phalanx, that was Term four I think with Zaphod...I wasn't around during term two, but I was for four and tried to tackle the madman outside your postcard stand...
 

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Between me and Craig, I bet we can put up the most active Ministry all term...and perhaps in Eutopia's history... ;)

We're already moving at quite a clip.
 

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I have high hopes for us. I think I like being a minister/MNA better than being President. It allows me to set a narrow agenda and then pursue it agressively. I hope to keep the GMs so busy cranking out information, impact reports, and survey studies, that they don't have time to think up new events. :rolleyes:

Being President, you get caught up in events far beyond your control and it can be distracting. Plus you have to rely on your ministers (who may or may not have the same agenda or activity level) to put a lot of things into practice. Add partisan opponents, bickering political allies, and assassination attempts, and the Presidency is a really hard job.

The downsides to my new role is that I have ideas beyond the scope of MTEF that I can't implement. Though in some ways, nothing is beyond the scope of the MTEF, since we do the budget and you can put all the programs and reforms in place you want, but if you don't get the funding, it doesn't matter. Plus, Langley now takes orders instead of giving them. That is going to take some getting used to. :p
 

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Well, you still boss little Michael around, so you'll always have that something... :)
 

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Craig Ashley said:
I have high hopes for us. I think I like being a minister/MNA better than being President. It allows me to set a narrow agenda and then pursue it agressively. I hope to keep the GMs so busy cranking out information, impact reports, and survey studies, that they don't have time to think up new events. :rolleyes:

The MTEF's Office: combining two of Eutopia's most hyperactive public servants.

I don't know why anyone would wanna be President...the ministries, that's where it's at...and it's where all the real decisions are made. ;)

EDIT: heagarty is gonna kill us when he sees that thread tomorrow...
 

The_Hawk

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Mar 12, 2002
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Erc said:
Eutopia spends $517 per person on defense; a pretty hefty amount, placing at # 19 on the world list (the US is #6 after, not surprisingly, such countries as Israel and Singapore).

That's per person, but not per military person. A more meaningful figure is precisely how much is spent on training, equipping, and paying the troops. In that respect, I don't think Eutopia does very well except perhaps in paying officers. (Peo's original figures allocates a fairly small percentage of funds to "Upkeep", including equipment, and "Exercises"; I assume training would be split between the two. Additionally, his figures spend all 14 billion Ð of the military budget; if Mel's statement is accurate and 8Ð is being set aside for procurement that's not happening, then the training and upkeep numbers are necessarily going to be smaller. Further, the figures for officers and civilians are based off a respectable 48KÐ and 36KÐ per annum, but conscripts only pull down 12KÐ during their service.) It thus seems that a large amount of the trouble with the armed forces is that the officers consume a disproportionate amount of the budget (70K officers x 48KÐ per annum = 3.36 billion Ð), yet will be leading conscripts who are virtually useless due to a) poor training, b) poor opportunities for experience, c) poor equipment, and d) poor motivation due to poor pay. My advice? Phase out the conscript system and generate a new pay scale for the military.

With respect to the Navy, taking Chipchat's example and running with it, the Australian Navy is (relatively) cheap and effective because it has a clear mission (contribute to international operations and, theoretically, defend Australia's territorial waters in the event of an unlikely attack) and is designed to efficiently carry out that mission. Eutopia's Navy has neither of these things. Given the sorry state of Eutopian foreign affairs, it would be unlikely to contribute to any major naval operation. However, the Navy is poorly equipped for a hypothetical defense role; carriers and their associated carrier groups are suitable for the projection of force on a large scale, if not globally, but are conversely basically useless for coastal defense when you could simply launch fighters from ground bases that *can't* be destroyed by swarms of Exocet missiles.

Again, my advice would be to scrap or mothball everything but the Oliver Hazard Perrys, the Upholders, and maybe the Farraguts, as well as the supply ships; then angle toward phasing out the Farraguts in favor of more modern vessels (and potentially doing the same with the Upholders). I'm surprised that no one has seriously entertained the idea of hitting the Russians up for vessels -- last I heard, they had whole fleets rusting in port, and would probably love to sell some ships for a song (or just a slice of that cold, hard procurement cash. ;)) In fact, a good DDG like the Sovremenny would allow you to project power into a combat theatre (in the form of cruise missiles), probably with better effect than long-outdated carriers which can't even land modern aircraft. So a few quality purchases could allow you to fulfill the two modern roles for which mid-range (i.e. not superpower) navies are suited -- again, supporting international operations, and coastal defense in the unlikely event of attack.

Some of this is probably toeing the IC/OOC line, but Tilly has only a passing interest in the military, and certainly not much of one in military reform... so take my .02Ð for what it's worth. ;)
 
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