Eutopia's Central Asylum (for OOC talk)

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Melanchthon -Edited for content
Re: Canada

Okay, just for clarification and before the debate gets sidetracked: when I initially mentioned Canada, it was specifically in terms of its "industrialized middle power" status - nothing more, nothing less. IOW, Canada was never intended as a model for Eutopian politics in general (at least as far as I'm concerned).

Apart from that, I actually *do* find Canadian politics exceptionally interesting.

Well, how about if certain sectors are fully state-owned (e.g., heavy industry, public transport, energy, health care, postal services, non-renewable resources, forestry), and the rest is (chiefly) private?

I think things could get very interesting if half or more of the economy was state owned, and thus I support this. Of course, what percentage would be nationalized by your sector allotment?

 

[Vulture]

Btw, who will 'officialize' all that is decided here? Mr. Speaker?

EDIT: Maybe I want to be some Gamemaster... If that is needed. Drop a nice event every now and then

 

[peo]

I don't think that the state should own that much...
Alltough it depends on if the 50% includes schools and similar.
I think that the goverment could own mines, hospitals, schools mainly.
Some production for example a papercompany in the smallish size.
Maybe a couple of steel mills.
Railroad company, monopoly phone company (both cellular and fixed).
Strong unions or strenghtening unions (with laws that make beeing in a union difficult and the workers want that to change)
this could lead to strikes in certain areas like harbours railroads an so on.
Maybe a prohibition against private ownership of hospitals.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

I'd say the Gov should own any business' that would be deemed "unprofitable but indispensible." Thus the railroads, health care, education, etc. But not wholesale ownership of industry as such. Probably in the 50% range.

 

[peo]

I think the goverment should own some buissneses that are in normal industry.

We could also make rules for how to exploit the natural resources in Eutopia, for example we could have a law to limit the cutting of forests. The law could stipulate the price regardless of who owns the wood.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Originally posted by Petrarca
I think things could get very interesting if half or more of the economy was state owned, and thus I support this.

As an addendum to my previous post on the issue, I think it might get even more interesting if some sectors that people may expect to see in private hands (e.g. heavy industry, forestry) were state-owned, while some sectors where people may expect a good deal of state involvement (e.g., public transport, energy) were fully private.

Of course, what percentage would be nationalized by your sector allotment?

I have no idea, to be honest.

Originally posted by VultureGFF
Btw, who will 'officialize' all that is decided here? Mr. Speaker?

Well, nothing is really decided here - it'll be decided and formalized by the Overhaul Committee.

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Melanchthon

As an addendum to my previous post on the issue, I think it might get even more interesting if some sectors that people may expect to see in private hands (e.g. heavy industry, forestry) were state-owned, while some sectors where people may expect a good deal of state involvement (e.g., public transport, energy) were fully private.

I really like the idea of massive state-ownership. Your ideas sound fine,as I'd like to be in the position to reform (in my view) the nation's economy.

 

[unmerged(3748)]

Originally posted by Petrarca

I really like the idea of massive state-ownership. Your ideas sound fine,as I'd like to be in the position to reform (in my view) the nation's economy.

I agree, but what about the die hard socialists? they wont have anything left to fight for anymore, besides pot legalisation

 

[unmerged(2178)]

Originally posted by Silent Eagle


I agree, but what about the die hard socialists? they wont have anything left to fight for anymore, besides pot legalisation

Imprisonment of political dissidents?

 

[Josephus I]

Originally posted by Silent Eagle


I agree, but what about the die hard socialists? they wont have anything left to fight for anymore, besides pot legalisation

We --I mean they--could get on with the business of executing candidates for monarchy. And imprisoning all Flandistanis.

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Silent Eagle


I agree, but what about the die hard socialists? they wont have anything left to fight for anymore, besides pot legalisation

They'd have to fight me in mortal combat over privatization of state industries.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

Actually I thought the exact opposite would be true. Especially if you plan on having people not in office. It seems like there will be increasingly little for them to do.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Originally posted by Silent Eagle
I agree, but what about the die hard socialists? they wont have anything left to fight for anymore, besides pot legalisation

Personally, I like shawng1's 50% suggestion as an overall benchmark. That should leave some room both for socialists and (neo-)liberals to fight the evils of private/state ownership. The suggestion in my previous post about "counter-intuitive" private/public ownership in some sectors was intended to work in the same direction.

On a different note, I now have all the contact information for the Committee; given that Murmurandus will be gone till October 13, I will wait a few days before sending out the draft discussion document to Committee members. So, if you have any new ideas and suggestions, the next few days may be a good time to post them.

 

[Blade!]

All right, Murmurandus is scheduled to come back tommorow, hopefully, the committee can quickly make some progress for a grand re-opening on the 1rst of November.

Please notify me of anything you need done or erased.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Originally posted by Blade!
All right, Murmurandus is scheduled to come back tommorow, hopefully, the committee can quickly make some progress for a grand re-opening on the 1rst of November.

Please notify me of anything you need done or erased.

Thanks, Blade!

Quick update: Murmurandus came back yesterday, so I sent out a first draft of the discussion paper to all Committee members last night. I'll collect feedback from all Committee members and then send out the final version of the discussion paper, at which point debates will begin in earnest.

I'll keep posting updates as the Committee progresses through its debates.

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Melanchthon

Thanks, Blade!

Quick update: Murmurandus came back yesterday, so I sent out a first draft of the discussion paper to all Committee members last night. I'll collect feedback from all Committee members and then send out the final version of the discussion paper, at which point debates will begin in earnest.

I'll keep posting updates as the Committee progresses through its debates.

"People of Eutopia, it is exactly committees like this one that, if elected, I will oppose for their elitist, appointed, rule-by-decree nature. If elected, my administration will provide completely open forums for public decisions, and any committees will be composed by elected representatives of the people, not appointed would-be autocrats. Therefore I urge you to vote for Petrarca, in a vote for democracy."

In a less facetious tone, I suggest that our economic system be as nationalized as Atlee's Britain, if not more.

 

[unmerged(2178)]

While I respect Petrarca's views I must respectfully disagree with his post in every way possible. I say we should have a decentralized plutocracy whereby the means of production are owned by warring concortiums of private citizens who vie for economic monopoly and political power across a colorful land of magic and mystery.

 

[Blade!]

Can I get a progress update? So that when my superiors question me I have somthing more substantial to say than.... "It's still in commitee!"

Also, feel free to start issueing me orders about deleting stuff.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Originally posted by Blade!
Can I get a progress update? So that when my superiors question me I have somthing more substantial to say than.... "It's still in commitee!"

Also, feel free to start issueing me orders about deleting stuff.

Two brief things by way of update:

(1) The discussion framework seems to have been agreed upon (yay!).

(2) At the moment, we're trying to set up an MSN-meeting. Six people, fifteen conflicting schedules. Anyhow, a meeting is likely to happen this weekend or next Wednesday, at which point we should have substantial progress to report. Keep your eyes peeled (actually, that idiom has always struck me as particularly painful, but nevermind... ).

Edit: minor correction

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Melanchthon

Two brief things by way of update:

(1) The discussion framework seems to have been agreed upon (yay!).

(2) At the moment, we're trying to set up an MSN-meeting. Six people, fifteen conflicting schedules. Anyhow, a meeting is likely to happen this weekend or next Wednesday, at which point we should have substantial progress to report. Keep your eyes peeled (actually, that idiom has always struck me as particularly painful, but nevermind... ).

Edit: minor correction

Could some of us rabble attend also?