Eutopia's Asylum for the Incurably Sane, Admissions [for OOC-talk]

[The_Hawk]

Second, even as a public figure, you can't print lies and call someone a criminal when no charges have been laid.

First, having re-read all of the Scuttlebutt's articles on the topic, I am totally unable to find where the editor ostensibly called Kenny a criminal. He essentially calls him a moral reprobate, sure, but that's different from criminality.

Second, even if he had done so, he could've easily printed that story provided he didn't have actual malice, and I rather doubt an American court would've found it (particularly considering that everything the Scuttlebutt published on the topic was opinion.) But that's beside the point, since heag told us that everything in the Scuttlebutt was true (or at least, that's the implication of "approved by the GM"), and so the paper has an absolute defense.

If you're a public figure -- and Kenny most definitely is -- there are incredible, almost insurmountable hurdles to attempting to make a defamation claim (again, under U.S. law, and while I grant you we don't have defamation law, we do have a very similar freedom of speech. ) It's just not gonna fly.

 

[Josephus I]

First, having re-read all of the Scuttlebutt's articles on the topic, I am totally unable to find where the editor ostensibly called Kenny a criminal..

Well, a good lawyer can, for starters, use this to prove that the Scuttlebutt implies that Kenny is guilty of a crime:

>>Has Per Kenny done the honorable thing and apologized for his actions, admitting guilt in an accident he caused? <<<

 

[Voshkod]

Sometimes it is important, not only to live up to some standard or obey some rule, but also to make sure that you do not create the perception of failing to live up to the standard or of breaking the rule. There was case that got much press a couple of years ago about someone who used a word that is synonym for miserly, but is almost a homonym for the adverbial form of the racial epithet sometimes referred to as the "N-word", even though it came from a completely differ root. The word was used in the presence of someone of the race to which that term has been perjoratively applied, resulting in a complaint filed, the speaker dismissed, triggering public debate and the speaker's eventual reinstatement. He was linguistically innocent, but still got put through the ringer. I hope you understand that I would rather not go through that.

More than fair; I was just curious. I remember the "niggardly" incident quite well; happened in my home city. The mayor (who I had some respect for) collapsed in front of the absurd wave of attacks on this poor guy and let him resign. He quietly hired him back after the storm.

 

[unmerged(27050)]

You call that insane, I call it continuity of government.

 

[The_Hawk]

Well, a good lawyer can, for starters, use this to prove that the Scuttlebutt implies that Kenny is guilty of a crime:

>>Has Per Kenny done the honorable thing and apologized for his actions, admitting guilt in an accident he caused? <<<

You've never felt guilty for a non-criminal act before?

 

[unmerged(4271)]

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hate that this great debate over what is slanderous/libelous/etc. is taking place OOC and not in the game.


If we've given you something interesting to talk about, d*mmit, please try to use it in the game! :rofl:

 

[unmerged(27050)]

Heag, can I have my character go to EVIL genius school? I want to rule the world.

 

[The_Hawk]

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hate that this great debate over what is slanderous/libelous/etc. is taking place OOC and not in the game.

Somehow, I knew you were going to say that. But remember we're talking about a hypothetical lawsuit that Kenny hasn't brought yet (and which he wouldn't win if he brought. ) He doesn't have a lawyer, either. So I suspect we're speaking about a case that'll never be brought.

 

[Voshkod]

Heag, can I have my character go to EVIL genius school? I want to rule the world.

Get in line, Junior. You're not truly evil until you build your secret underground lair with government-appropriated taxpayer dollars.

 

[unmerged(27050)]

Get in line, Junior. You're not truly evil until you build your secret underground lair with government-appropriated taxpayer dollars.

Hmm.... well, what about henchman status?

 

[unmerged(4271)]

Hmm.... well, what about henchman status?

You'll have to take that job from Green_Alien! :rofl:

If you want to be a diabolical criminal mastermind, I suppose that is possible, but you'll need extensive training at the Yuri Q. Voshkod School of "Legitimate Business". Professor Felix Anzaldua can accept your application, and so long as the psychological profiling confirms that you are clear of Zuckerbacultitis, then, and only then, can you begin your training.

Or you could just be try to "reunite" Eutopia and Bermuda. That'd be a worthy goal, with some political aspects to boot!

 

[von Streusser]

Wow, awesome!

I probably dropped the ball when I neglected to mention that everything that appeared in the article was run past heagarty and received his approval before printing. My apologies for any confusion I caused there.

Second, the whole purpose of the article, this is OOC of course, was to stir up something that had gotten left behind. The story had shown up in a couple NewsLinks, and like many of the stories that show up there, got no attention. So I decided to kick it back into the limelight. And boy did that work. I have nothing against IKK in game or out, and I have no agenda to pursue here.

If legislation or litigation comes up about establishing clear standards for libel/slander, great! It's definitely a contentious topic, and one that could have profound real impact on the game with all the newspapers. I hope that someone introduces the topic, honestly. I'm amazed none of the other Scuttlebutt articles prompted the discussion.

So while my article may have failed to amuse many/all of you, I think its contributed to the game exactly as it was supposed to. I hope we can use it as a starting point for good things. Additionally, I hope someone is willing to step up and take its place when I *cough* can no longer continue in that capacity soon...not that I'm hinting at anything.

@ Josephus: Good point, I guess I kind of slipped in to American law type libel standards. Is it possible that the article could be seen as libelous? Sure. In the US, it'd probably be close as Voshkod has suggested. We aren't in the US, I know, so who knows how it'd go here. By all means, start some legislation to establish firm rules.

Lastly, buried under all this dicta: Unclebryan, I'm curious why you said PJ is unlikely to take the Kenny case? He has no (known/official) connection to the Scuttlebutt, and is very non-partisan in his work. If Kenny hired him, he'd actually be more than likely to take the case, long as he pays. Dunno what he'd investigate, but that's the client's job to suggest.

 

[Josephus I]

Somehow, I knew you were going to say that. But remember we're talking about a hypothetical lawsuit that Kenny hasn't brought yet (and which he wouldn't win if he brought. ) He doesn't have a lawyer, either. So I suspect we're speaking about a case that'll never be brought.

I agree Heag and Hawk. Trouble is, there is no real strategic advantage for Josephus to take this up publicly. It's Kenny's thing...and he doesn't tend to read anything that's not in the P4P thread. I thought about an editorial in the Worker, but, as I said, politically, there is no advantage to Josephus backing the case of a politician in serious trouble like this.

However, maybe next term, I'll introduce a libel and defamation Bill in the Assembly and Hawk and I can argue it then...

 

[Voshkod]

If you want to be a diabolical criminal mastermind, I suppose that is possible, but you'll need extensive training at the Yuri Q. Voshkod School of "Legitimate Business".

I miss Yuri. With all the power vacuums on the island right now, he'd be cleaning up.

Of course, I miss Napier too. Didn't think he'd get a HoF vote.

Just a bit of buyer's remorse. I have big plans for Levarge, but they hinge on him gaining certain positions. I fear if he gets overtly political too soon, things won't develop properly.

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

evil online class and its online quiz with the online error!!!!!srthdfjd

 

[unmerged(27050)]

You'll have to take that job from Green_Alien! :rofl:

If you want to be a diabolical criminal mastermind, I suppose that is possible, but you'll need extensive training at the Yuri Q. Voshkod School of "Legitimate Business". Professor Felix Anzaldua can accept your application, and so long as the psychological profiling confirms that you are clear of Zuckerbacultitis, then, and only then, can you begin your training.

Or you could just be try to "reunite" Eutopia and Bermuda. That'd be a worthy goal, with some political aspects to boot!

Eh, too much work... what about the Russian Mafia?

 

[The_Hawk]

However, maybe next term, I'll introduce a libel and defamation Bill in the Assembly and Hawk and I can argue it then...

Except, of course, I'd have to be elected to the Assembly again, and at the moment there aren't exactly any parties that would have me. Tilly would never back Recyznski, thinks little of Kenny or Fourgeres, and isn't far left enough to go in for the ESA much (not to mention that he, like most Eutopians apparently, still holds Josephus responsible for FREE. )

 

[Voshkod]

Eh, too much work... what about the Russian Mafia?

Try that and some very large men will fill your mouth with cement and use you as a sinker for shark fishing.

Trust me, I know.

 

[unmerged(33865)]

Lastly, buried under all this dicta: Unclebryan, I'm curious why you said PJ is unlikely to take the Kenny case? He has no (known/official) connection to the Scuttlebutt, and is very non-partisan in his work. If Kenny hired him, he'd actually be more than likely to take the case, long as he pays. Dunno what he'd investigate, but that's the client's job to suggest.

Do I have to do a comparison of the Sue D. Nym's prose with PJ's?
Or "accidentally" send an e-mail to PJ at Sue D. Nym's address and get a response from PJ?
I just assumed that an observant private eye would also see some of the absurdities in life and want a place to expose them.
Obviously, a real life PI would have gone to Kenny first, showed him the story and so would have been "hired" to keep him quiet. PJ is showing altruistic tendencies, which is a career limiting move for a private eye.
How come you never used the idea I sent you? You said you loved it at the time?

 

[von Streusser]

Do I have to do a comparison of the Sue D. Nym's prose with PJ's?
Or "accidentally" send an e-mail to PJ at Sue D. Nym's address and get a response from PJ?
I just assumed that an observant private eye would also see some of the absurdities in life and want a place to expose them.
Obviously, a real life PI would have gone to Kenny first, showed him the story and so would have been "hired" to keep him quiet. PJ is showing altruistic tendencies, which is a career limiting move for a private eye.
How come you never used the idea I sent you? You said you loved it at the time?

Well of course they sound the same, I write them both...and they're the same person. He wouldn't fall for the email trick though.

As for him going to Kenny, maybe, maybe not. Peej has been holding down a job fairly well and doesn't need to chase ambulances so to speak. Plus a generous donation from Yuri Voshkod last term has paid his bills for a few months out. Also, there's a new career on the horizon for him which came up before the Kenny Scandal. So he has a reason for his altruism. And Loic has a reason for his statement, I guess. Not questioning you, I was just curious.

As for your idea, I did love it and still do. Sad thing is, last time I wrote a comedic edition, your idea had gotten buried in my inbox and it slipped my mind. Since then I've had a case of the "not funnies". I'll try to come up with some material for another edition to showcase it in. I AM a sucker for a good play on words.

Course, you have to admit that now might not be the best time, too.