Eutopian Congress of Labour (ECL) - General Meeting

[unmerged(6034)]

For the next political elections, I think the congress must officially support the RD, even if they don't really defend workers. The ESRP hasn't a list, so we must do with what we have.

2. I agree with your propositions.

 

[unmerged(9119)]

Originally posted by Nominoé
For the next political elections, I think the congress must officially support the RD, even if they don't really defend workers. The ESRP hasn't a list, so we must do with what we have.

2. I agree with your propositions.

I think that in the future election the Union should not officially support the RD.
We can support, but we should not say that NOW because they can change leadership and stop defending, the party can split and creat two or more parties and even the RD can End.
I hope neither of this happen, I sincerilly do.
And of cource a party not related with the RD can be created. witch defend better the workeres.

And If we was a UNION say this NOW the other parties won't support us and by this we became party affiliate union and I and Pero don't whant that.

So I was Executive Secretary don't accept your Ideia and the resons are explicited above. I hope you understand


Vasco, Executive Secretary of the ECL

 

[unmerged(9119)]

Pero:


1) I think we should support a party but only desied a week before the elections, for the reasons I post above

2) An other suggestion the the maximum of 40 hours of work


About the elections: I really perfere the General Secretary and Executive Secretary, that spokeman and vice-spokeman

I would like to continue was Executive Secretary, First I think I'm doing a good work ( I really think, some one can comment this ) by, defending the union, showing the union to EUtopia and by giving the union some new ideias.
I would not like to became General Secretary because I'm doing many things and I'm allmost a deputy I gonna have even less time, but compared with many people I will have mutch
And I support Pero to continue was General Secretary. If he whants, I hope so
The elections should be in january 7 after you arrive, thats okay with you??

And Pero can you please Vote, every vote counts

And Nominoe if you like so mutch the RD you should join the party

Vasco, Executive Secretary

 

[Pero Coveilha]

We are very late regarding our position about the next elections.. I propose we close our vote tonight midnight GMT
at the moment we have 2 proposals :
- "the congress must officially support the RD for the next elections" (2 vote at the moment, if I understand correctly)
- "the ECL will publicly present the talks it has had (... or not) with the candidate parties. The workers will judge with their own minds " (1 vote)
Actually, the result will be the same, it's just a matter of wording our support. It could affect the minds of the voters, of the workers, of the other organizations members, and of the next government (our relations will be easier if we support officially the RD and if the RD wins, but much more difficult if another party wins)
- I'll vote afetr our decision. I like suspense

- "spokesman" is just the meaning of the position; we can keep the former names
So we will propose : me as General Secretary, and Vasco as Executive Secretary. Any member can make counter-propositions

- Jan. 7th is fine with me. I guess that the game will slow down during the Season time. If it doesn't, will you be present on the forum, Vasco? Or anyone else?

about the 40 hours/week, how could have we forgotten that! I totally agree

 

[unmerged(9119)]

I think the Union Should Suport IN THIS ELECTIONS the RD.

And in FUTURE ELECTIONS the union should disiede witch party to vote only a week before the elections. Decause of the issue I said above.


The list is Okay with me

[OOC] I will be present in the forum, I now on holidays so I will be more present now that ever, and in the holidays I will past them in home so I will be connected in the world wide web [/OOC]

 

[Apebe]

I think voting should be left to a personnal judgement.
We are here to work on very specific subjects not to become a wing of one party. If we become that we will loose our ability to criticize that party (if it gets the power).

The Union shouldn't become that.

Regards

 

[Pero Coveilha]

Originally posted by I_Killed-Kenny
I think the Union Should Suport IN THIS ELECTIONS the RD.

so you chose the 1st proposal, right?

And in FUTURE ELECTIONS the union should disiede witch party to vote only a week before the elections. Decause of the issue I said above.

I assume that everybody will agree with that in the ECL
Please correct : "Which party to vote for or not". We don't have to call to vote for a party, as APB said

So APB, this is a 3rd proposal : "The ECL will completely ignore the next political elections".
I personally agree with the reasons you give. I tried to make a compromise with IKK and Nomi's will

 

[unmerged(4007)]

Mr Coveilha,

On behalf of the FR, I expect an apology for your out-of-line and uncalled for remarks in the LD HQ. I carried on a long and civil discussion in our HQ with Mr Vasco regarding the minimum wage plank of your proposal, and said I would continue it here on that or other issues IF HE WISHED. He did not post any further material for me to comment on, so it is HIM who broke off the dialogue.

I have neither "ignored" nor "insulted" you. I guess if one doesn't kowtow to the Union, they are insulting them in your mind, but I did no such thing.

If you do not apologize for this publically both in our HQ and the HQ of the party this occurred in, I will be sure to take note of it in negotiations with your body in the future. We're quite aware that you are committed to the left politically, but if you cannot maintain civility and accuracy in your comments, you destroy what little credibility you have built up. In the future, check your facts.

Most Sincerely
Sean Galloglaigh

 

[Apebe]

Not neccessarely ignore the elections which is not good to my sense.

But no : the Union will vote ...

We should say this Party program has these good points and that one those ...
I personnally I'm not leftist economally speaking and I think the workers will have better life conditions using modern economic theories.

 

[Pero Coveilha]

Originally posted by shawng1
Mr Coveilha,

On behalf of the FR, I expect an apology for your out-of-line and uncalled for remarks in the LD HQ. I carried on a long and civil discussion in our HQ with Mr Vasco regarding the minimum wage plank of your proposal, and said I would continue it here on that or other issues IF HE WISHED. He did not post any further material for me to comment on, so it is HIM who broke off the dialogue.

I have neither "ignored" nor "insulted" you. I guess if one doesn't kowtow to the Union, they are insulting them in your mind, but I did no such thing.

If you do not apologize for this publically both in our HQ and the HQ of the party this occurred in, I will be sure to take note of it in negotiations with your body in the future. We're quite aware that you are committed to the left politically, but if you cannot maintain civility and accuracy in your comments, you destroy what little credibility you have built up. In the future, check your facts.

Most Sincerely
Sean Galloglaigh

Mr Galloglaigh

I sincerely apologize for having said that you ignored us. I read only casually your HQ (hey, I'm not supposed to), and I never took notice of your interest. It's the same with the LD : if you want to show your interest in our activities, why don't you come in here? Mr IKK and I did make the promotion of our platform in the EUtopian media and the parties HQs. I even asked by pm your newspaper to publish an announcement regarding this platform. It has never been published. (Or would I be wrong once again?). I regret that on the contrary the Voice of the Republic has immediately put this ridiculous polemic on the forefront.

Most of the time, it has been to the ECL to invite himself in the parties HQ. We expect that we will have more consideration in the future
Now I know that I was wrong about your lack of interest. There is one thing that the ECL shouldn't do : it is to break any talks for shallow reasons.
I expect that in the future we will publicly show our common interest in the social and economical affairs of EUtopia, and will be able to work together for the benefit of the workers. Hopefully, this little polemic will finally give a positive outcome

Most sincerely
P. Coveilha, ECL General Secretary

 

[Pero Coveilha]

Originally posted by Apebe
I personnally I'm not leftist economally speaking and I think the workers will have better life conditions using modern economic theories.

exactly my proposal then. So we have
proposal #1 : 2 votes
proposal #2 : 2 votes
Josephus I vote will be decisive, let's hope we will be able to participate

 

[unmerged(4007)]

Thank you, your apology is accepted. I was not editor-in-chief of the VoR (acting or otherwise) at the time of your request. So I was not the person to send submissions to. I also am rather pressed for time with being party chair as well.

 

[unmerged(9119)]

Mr. Galloglaigh

I would like to say that I didn't broke the dialogue. When I said that we should continue the dialogue HERE, I was hoping that you post some thing HERE, so I was waiting. I didn't brake anything, this was a misunderstanding.

So I invate you to continue to say what you think about platfrom even the minimum wage, so every body who didn't look in the FR HQ can know your ideias.

About the ingore and insults: It's true that you inicially ignored this Union like many of the other parties and only after I post some times in your HQ you started the dialogue.
You of cource do accept this?
Thankfully you paid atention to us and start a dialogue but only in this week or so. This is true don't think?

And about the insult, in the beggining of EUropia2 you had the habite of insulting other organizations the RD and Union are the most notories. Thankfully you and you party stop that, but we can not forgot but we can forgive and so I did Mr. Pero didn't look to our civil discusson so he didn't know that your way of make policies have change. I hope you understand

Vasco

 

[unmerged(4007)]

The position I discussed on the FR HQ was that on minimum wage, there are issues with making it nation-wide without respect to type of labor. Primarily because non-regulated income labor (such as labor that includes tips or commissions) is not excluded, as it is in the vast majority of nations, even Western nations. Also it doesn't exclude the military, which provides room and board for its members. And no military pays a base wage that would equal the minimum wage to enlisted personnel. Especially when you have to consider that people "work" for the military 24/7.

Those are exceptions that, IMHO, needs to be made in any minimum wage bill.

 

[unmerged(9119)]

Originally posted by shawng1
The position I discussed on the FR HQ was that on minimum wage, there are issues with making it nation-wide without respect to type of labor. Primarily because non-regulated income labor (such as labor that includes tips or commissions) is not excluded, as it is in the vast majority of nations, even Western nations. Also it doesn't exclude the military, which provides room and board for its members. And no military pays a base wage that would equal the minimum wage to enlisted personnel. Especially when you have to consider that people "work" for the military 24/7.

Those are exceptions that, IMHO, needs to be made in any minimum wage bill.

That is okay for me but we need to have a well writen law so the employers won't run from their obligations.

But about the military, the conscripted aren't payed but the rest are right?? The officer are payed right??

Can you please say what you think about the rest of the platform please??

 

[unmerged(4007)]

Enlisted personnel are paid. It's just if you worked out their wages on an hourly basis, it wouldn't meet minimum wage because military servicemen "work" 24/7.

One of the advantages of transitioning to a volunteer, professional military (which I personnally prefer over a 5-10 year period) is that individual servicemen will be better paid for, but they still won't make minimum wage at lower ranks. No one's do in the world.

On wages points 3 & 4, we would say the same thing as the RD. Part-time/seasonal workers need to be considered differently on this point.

Working Conditions:
1- Ok.
2- Have to agree that we need to establish a number of inspectors before we say we need more.
3- Yes, with the exception of children on family farms.

Health Care

Personally I'd agree with the RD proposal. Though the CDA, the predecessor to the FR, was in favor of universal Gov't health care. Which would render this issue moot.

Worker's Rights- too vague. I don't think all jobs should be unionized. I think workers should have the right to choose whether or not they wish to organize.

2. We'd prefer arbitration to lawsuits that would tie up the courts and line the pockets of the bar association for no good reason.

3. Sure, this sounds like unon policy to me.

Education Training- We are for decentralizing education completely. So this would not be a government matter.

Employment benefits, we have no objection here, but we would expect that those unemployed have to prove either they are training for new work, looking for new work, or disabled. Failure to produce proof of one of these would be grounds for terminating benefits.

Retirement- Disagree with stronger state involvement. People should have the right to determine when they wish to retire on their own, especially given the fact that life spans world-wide are raising. We think this is a matter for negotiation between the employer and the union, not the state.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

BTW, we also would strongly oppose the use of Union dues to support political candidates without the WRITTEN PERMISSION of the INDIVIDUAL. We consider it a violation of the free speech rights of a Union member to have his dues used to pay for the campaign of a candidate he does not personally support.

 

[Pero Coveilha]

Mr. Galloglaigh
I'm pleased to see that we agree on many issues.

Please consider some minor points:
- the military have a specific status. It was not intended to include them in our demands [OOC : btw, I know no country where the military are unionized and have elected representatives; maybe we could make a special law for EUtopia. It would be particularly interesting for the ECL, since many players are in the army!]
- the general labour laws should of course be adaptated for specific professions or situations, like the ones you noticed. But our will is that they also benefit of the large reforms we promote. Part-time workers must be defended like any worker.
- we seek for no obligation to unionize
-if you are elected at the govt, do expect that the Union will come to you with claimings that you don't want the State to deal with!
-many other details should in fact be discussed with the govt and the CA

About the internal rules of the ECL, nobody has the right to discuss them, except the members themselves.
BTW, the Union has never paid (and I'd do anything for it won't in the future) anything to another organization or political individual. About the elections, my personal position is that we present the results we've had with your party [sorry that we must temporary close the talks now], the LD and the RD.

BTW guys, we must decide about this (not that is that important now for the elections, since almost everybody has voted (and every of our members, me seems)). At the moment, the 2 proposals got 2 votes each... The simplest thing to do would be to
totally abstain! (and this will occur if I get no answer till tonight...)

 

[unmerged(9119)]

I think it's just ridiculous to say any thing now. WE should abstain

It was a bad dissison to do that.

But next time we aill support one party that is for shore

 

[Pero Coveilha]

yep. Foul start about this one...
but I'm still convinced that we shouldn't support parties in the future, but only some parts of their programs! (hopefully we will have more time to discuss that next time)