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Cicero

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thx for your invitation. i´d really like to join a EGA series again: good rules, nice and stable but also challenging crew.
unfortunately playing EU mp on weekends is simply not possible for me. too bad, i guess i miss a lot of fun :( . maybe EGA6 will happen weekdays...
 
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Nabukodonosor said:
Daniel,

EGA is not BF. We play together for a long time. Joohoo, Kwfinn, Tem and me are here till EGA3. Caslu and K'shar are here from the beginning (EGA1) and noone have quitted till now. We are like a small family here and like every family we had our share of hatred and cursing but, all in all, this game could be described as one of the most friendly ones (as far as you can be friendly with people whom you are fighing century after century after century). I assure you that noone from the initial EGA crew will quit. For others I can't guarantie but I belive they will stick with us rather then admit complete surrender with quitting. Though, if someone wants to quit noone will hold him. Fighters don't quit and quitters don't fight anyway.

This was indeed good news Nabu. Apparently more people for my Golden List :) (if I had one... I merely have the grey and the black variety ;) ).

I trust your word and am therefore satisfied so far but how about some of the other? I would like to see them agree to this attitude to gaming. The reason I ask for it is that I have special reasons to believe that they do not agree with me (us?). As I believe they are all honest people I see the rule as working well in their case (when making the same question to a complete newbie one cannot, of course, be sure of being told the truth).

So, do

Marcus, HoG and KJ agree with me that quits are only allowed under the 3 mentioned cases? If such a case does not occur you promise to play the game until it ends?

The reason I mention their names is

- I spoke to Marcus on ICQ and got the impression he does not agree
- I have seen HoG quit a lot of games
- I seem to remember I have seen KJ advocate in discussions the right for anyone to leave as he want, however I have never seen him do a bad quit so I basically trust him, I think it is merely a case of exaggerated liberalism - does such an animal exist? - on his part :D)

The simplest thing would be to insert the rule and then get a firm stand on this rule from the "suspects". Just push them up against the wall, put on your grimmest expression and say with a dark voice: "now you answer this question truthfully or tonight you will sleep with the fishes..."
 

HolisticGod

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Daniel,

As far as I know, I've never broken your rule. There are a couple of situations in the last three (four?) years that may not have been ideal, but generally rule breaking or (in the vast majority of cases) real life has cropped up.

I won't promise not to quit this game. That's not a promise anybody can make. But if it didn't intend to play it through, I wouldn't be here.

Nabu,

I'll work out a comprehensive list as soon as I get the chance. Cas and I discussed a number of things last night and seemed to be in almost complete agreement, so a lot of the major stuff (so far) is covered.

Caslu,

1. Brandenburg
2. Venice
3. The Ottoman Empire, Sweden or France (in that order)

The only country I'm deadset against playing is Austria, because I'm already doing it in two games. I've also recently played Spain, England and Russia.
 

HolisticGod

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Cas,

Austria's still open too.
 

HolisticGod

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All,

Right.

Ryo and I have been talking extensively about the mod and it turns out the problems I've mentioned are the easiest to fix (and can be done as options). The real problem is tax and manpower, which Kasperus, not Ryo, did, and accordingly without experience in MP. More to the point, he retained all the values of the original provinces and averaged the new provinces to them, meaning excessively high income and tax. More importantly-because that could be workable with some tweaks-the distribution of new provinces was obviously not regionally equal.

So we have to redo everything. Ryo's posted some ideas on how to do that on his forum, which I suggest everybody give a once over. And collective brainstorming would be very helpful.
 

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Dr Bob said:
You really should get a good, reliable austria for once, IE:R and EGA4 both had a dodgy one :)
Hahaha, I couldn't read this and not comment on it. IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. :D
 

HolisticGod

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All,

Here we go.

Evidently, we're starting this Saturday, so Ryo and I have come up with a system to get all the European provinces into a workable state by then. Keep in mind-we know this isn't perfect, and eventually I think all the provinces in Europe, at least, will have to be done case by case and by hand, but it's the only way to be ready in five days unless someone has a better suggestion.

Each region will have an average value range for tax and manpower, with human capitals getting a boost. We will then go through, by hand, and correct certain key provinces (Istanbul, Berlin, Paris and London, for example, and rich cities like Flanders, Danzig, Lubeck). So there will be some variation within regions.

The main factors to consider are:

1. Historical/Regular map wealth (N Germany, Southern England and the Netherlands are quite wealthy and high in manpower, for example)
2. The number of new provinces (see below)
3. The number of new provinces versus new provinces in neighboring regions
4. General game balance

The regions are as follows:

Region Provinces Old Provinces
# British Isles
# France
# Iberia
# Italy
# Netherlands
# Southern Germany
# Northern Germany
# Balkans/Greece/Hungary
# Scandinavia
# Poland/Baltics
# Ukraine
# Crimea
# Russia
# Asia Minor
# Arabic
# Egypt/North Africa

This is the list of European cities I've come up with that'll need tweaking:

1. London (Up)
2. Paris (Up)
3. Constantinople (Way up)
4. Venice (Way up)
5. Berlin (Way up)
6. All Portuguese provinces
7. Copenhagen
8. Flanders
9. Amsterdam
10. Lyons
11. Genoa
12. Rome
13. Naples
14. Alexandria
15. Bahgdad
16. Strassbourg, Wurttemberg
17. Pest
18. Buda
19. Kiev
20. Warsaw
21. Crakow

Be sure to post any additions to this. We ought to keep it under thirty, though, so it's not a pain in the ass to code.

I'll be posting current province counts, old province counts and old average manpower/tax totals for all the regions, but I don't have time now and I figured we should get started.

The best way to ball park it if you want to get started is to load up Kasperus' map and check the values of preexisting provinces (according to ID-Berlin for example).

EDIT: Forgot to mention. The way we think we should do this is come up with a viable set of ranges by Wednesday (not much to debate-just load it up and verify the numbers I/Ryo/Cas/K'Shar/Whomever comes up with). Then anybody who has time will take a certain human country in SP and run it, after annexing its usual regions, for a good century or so, just to make sure it's comparable to vanilla. Post all the numbers from 1492 and your stop date, and we'll make any necessary adjustments before Ryo runs the numbers a second time and tweaks those provinces that need it.

It's not ideal, but we only have five days.
 

unmerged(41172)

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HolisticGod said:
I think all the provinces in Europe, at least, will have to be done case by case and by hand, but it's the only way to be ready in five days unless someone has a better suggestion.

Suggestion? Maybe we shouldn't start in a 5 days time. We can hardly make and test such changes in 5 days.
 

King John

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Signing on as austria
 
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Casluerj said:
Noted and updated.

Open spots: Russia, Venice and Poland.

Well, Marcus seems to agree with HoG whose response is fairly comforting. It would have been nice to see a more clear statement of an improvement on the quit frequency but I guess we have to do with this and hope for the best. Perhaps this little discussion will mean they think twice before quitting the next time. :)

Russia for us is my preferred choice.

Ozzeh, if you prefer something else then choose another.
 

unmerged(38752)

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Daniel A said:
Well, Marcus seems to agree with HoG whose response is fairly comforting. It would have been nice to see a more clear statement of an improvement on the quit frequency but I guess we have to do with this and hope for the best. Perhaps this little discussion will mean they think twice before quitting the next time. :)

Russia for us is my preferred choice.

Ozzeh, if you prefer something else then choose another.

No Russia is fine.
 

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Daniel A said:
Well, Marcus seems to agree with HoG whose response is fairly comforting. It would have been nice to see a more clear statement of an improvement on the quit frequency but I guess we have to do with this and hope for the best. Perhaps this little discussion will mean they think twice before quitting the next time. :)

Russia for us is my preferred choice.

Ozzeh, if you prefer something else then choose another.

I've never quit because I was losing. The only game that could be construed as a bad quit for me was the one Fal GM'd last summer, but that was as I explained back then because I simply had too many games, and that one happened to be the least interesting(I hadn't even actually started playing it yet either).
 

HolisticGod

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Nabu,

That was my thinking too, but as I said it's been decided that we start this Saturday.

John,

Hehehe. So we'll be playing the reverse of BoP, eh? :D

We do seem to wind up in this situation quite a bit, don't we? I think the first time we did France-Brandenburg in ToT III. Then Brandenburg-Austria in TfG. Austria-Brandenburg in BOP. And now back to Brandenburg-Austria.

I intend to roleplay the Electorate in the same manner you have, provided the Emperor will be as gracious as I and my arquebusiers have been. ;)

By the way, you up for a game of AOE II?
 
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King John said:
I've never quit because I was losing. The only game that could be construed as a bad quit for me was the one Fal GM'd last summer, but that was as I explained back then because I simply had too many games, and that one happened to be the least interesting(I hadn't even actually started playing it yet either).

That wasn't a bad quit. You warned beforehand that you might not be able to play.

Sigh, too bad that game crashed though.
 

King John

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HolisticGod said:
Nabu,

That was my thinking too, but as I said it's been decided that we start this Saturday.

John,

Hehehe. So we'll be playing the reverse of BoP, eh? :D

We do seem to wind up in this situation quite a bit, don't we? I think the first time we did France-Brandenburg in ToT III. Then Brandenburg-Austria in TfG. Austria-Brandenburg in BOP. And now back to Brandenburg-Austria.

I intend to roleplay the Electorate in the same manner you have, provided the Emperor will be as gracious as I and my arquebusiers have been. ;)

By the way, you up for a game of AOE II?


Indeed, good times :). Yeah, sure. And why not.
 
Oct 22, 2001
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King John said:
I've never quit because I was losing. The only game that could be construed as a bad quit for me was the one Fal GM'd last summer, but that was as I explained back then because I simply had too many games, and that one happened to be the least interesting(I hadn't even actually started playing it yet either).

I know John, that is what I said. :) It is not your actions I am afraid of, only your liberal views that may spread like the bird flue;)