Europe's Golden Age 5: The Golden Age is Back

[unmerged(41172)]

Between the two of us Ozzeh is much too preoccupied with keeping his inflation at zero

hehe, inflation is like a fever - once you expirience it you don't want it to return ever again

btw, what would be your (and Ozzeh's) choice?

Also HoG, KJ and others; what are your choices?

Damo told me he would like to play Russia long ago.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

hehe, inflation is like a fever - once you expirience it you don't want it to return ever again

btw, what would be your (and Ozzeh's) choice?

Well, Ozzeh must agree first.

Being an economist I prefer nations on the border of the human area who also have colonial potential. Like ENG, POR, OE and RUS. I do not like nations like AUS, mainly focused on war.

Let's hear from Ozzeh.

 

[Van Engel]

Well, Ozzeh must agree first.

Being an economist I prefer nations on the border of the human area who also have colonial potential. Like ENG, POR, OE and RUS. I do not like nations like AUS, mainly focused on war.

Let's hear from Ozzeh.

You can have colonial Austrias if you like you know. It's just they don't work very well.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Ozzeh is interested. We are presently comparing our calendars. As it looks now only Jan 21st appears to be troublesome for the coming 3-4 months, neither of us can play that day.

But there is another potential obstacle. A discussion on ICQ this morning reminded me that there is not all that share my view on quitting.

I basically believe you can quit if
- you have serious RL problems
- or the rules are not upheld in the game (I consider "being nice", i.e. refraining from insulting behaviour, to be an implicit rule even if not explicitly written)
- or all the rest agree you may

However, I see some names that I am quite certain (judging from earlier debates and from what I have seen happen in other campaigns) believe it is OK to leave in the middle of a campaign if they "feel like it". I believe the normal reason for this is that they have not been very successful and therefore lost some of the fun and then egoistically do not care much for the joy of gaming of the rest of the crew. A certain inflexibility in the ability to adjust their aim in the game with their present potential can also be traced. I would prefer if we all agreed that once you sign up you will play till the end unless one of the three things I mention above occurs (or some other good reason that anyone can find out now, before we start).

I am quite sure at least some of you know very well that they belong to the "dangerous" type, the inflexible type who probably as well left the football field when they were youngsters, merely because their team was losing. (note this was a joke, not an insult )

And if it is so that the game leaves little for you once you are "unsuccessful" and that people, including you yourself, believe it is too much to demand that you then should be forced to play on several sessions, well then it is not a game for me. Then your love of the game is not big enough for me to invest my time in playing with you.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

You can have colonial Austrias if you like you know. It's just they don't work very well.

Is that an option in Ryo's scenario?

 

[HolisticGod]

K'Shar,

1K is not a pittance early on. And you pretty much missed the point, which is why Daniel felt the need to restate it.

A lot of things in this game are a matter of luck, clicking a button, whatever. Starting tech, for example. Leaders. Good and bad events. Starting DPs (especially). Etc., etc. No less so than DOTF. You can argue until you're blue in the face that these things serve a purpose or can be planned for or whatever, but so does DOTF. Everybody knows it's there. Everybody knows when and how it's used. Everybody knows it confers certain advantages.

Banning it makes no more sense than banning all these other things.

 

[unmerged(48268)]

I basically believe you can quit if
- you have serious RL problems
- or the rules are not upheld in the game (I consider "being nice", i.e. refraining from insulting behaviour, to be an implicit rule even if not explicitly written)
- or all the rest agree you may

Sure. You are in charge of enforcing the penalties for violation since it is your rule. I think 20 lashes with a cane is fair, but that is just me. Everyone post your home address so Daniel can visit you and unleash punishment upon your evil soul.

 

[unmerged(48268)]

POST PREFERENCES PLEASE

This means you, HolisticGod, King John, Daniel/Ozzeh, and others.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Sure. You are in charge of enforcing the penalties for violation since it is your rule. I think 20 lashes with a cane is fair, but that is just me. Everyone post your home address so Daniel can visit you and unleash punishment upon your evil soul.

Marcus,

This rule, unfortunately, cannot be enforced in the matter you refer to. No one can force anyone else to stay.

It is based on the presumption that people are honest. If we state this rule as a condition for the game and people are honest then we will hopefully have much less problems with bad quits than we would if we did not post it. Hopefully we will also get a crew. But first things first and that is IMO getting reliable players.

This discussion is an old one. We have had it on the board several times during the years (even before I entered the MP community IIRC). But the importance of having players staying in the campaing only gets more and more important to me the more campaigns I play.

Thus the annonouncement of any definite preferences for my part will be postponed until this question is resolved.

 

[Casluerj]

WOW! Lot of things happened here since yesterday... I dont have time to comment all things now...

Therefore, I propose we put the following people up on the board.

It's a good choice... The K'shar/France - Caslu/Spain thing would be explosive ... However I am still considering to not do a major role this game (I am thinking to do the Hungary-Holland thing)... I still have to decide... Any suggestion?

I also want to talk with Marcus and K'shar about DOF on ICQ or by PM (if we dont have the time of being together online).

 

[K'shar]

Well I wouldn't want the passionate users of the Faith to get all wound up with the possibility of it's damnation, so as I said we'll just have a restriction on it. It will simply cost (techwise) alot more to use it. I'll go over the details with my colleagues .

The one claiming that 1000d (plus inflation) is a "pittance" of money, without specifying under what circumstances it is so, is the one that drags the debate below the quality mark

This is a matter of opinion Dan, for a victorious war I feel 1k ducats is not a great expense even early on.

To explain my intent is to understand that the main aim with the DOTF function was to provide additional CBs and encouragement to be more aggresive against opposed religious states. It's historical legitimacy is really limited out of this horizon and so is it's penalty which is so easily avoided. I just want people to face up to their choices and circumstance. Banning it seemed an easier and a pleasant means of removing the constant artifical arrangements and dows for that purpose.

Your impassioned plea, however (not unexpected) will be taken into most serious account.

 

[Joohoo]

Joohoo reporting for duty

Prefs:
I need to think about it.

 

[Tem_Probe]

KJ, yes it is worth a rule because boost to morale is now 0.5 and DOTF nation rocks after that. Welcome as a perm.

EARTH to NAB, EARTH to NAB.
Morale bonus WAS 0.5 before 1.08 . NOW it is 0.15 . I'm fairly sure I told you once or twice already. The fact is DoTF was overpowered, now its a small add-on that can make a slight difference, but its truly arguable whether 1000 ducats of additional troops isn't better.

I'd like to sign up btw, but I can only starting second saturday of February. If it starts earlier, I'll probably have to opt out, because I want to finish IER and first saturday of Feb I'm gone.

 

[Joohoo]

Have you decided which date we will start on?

My prefs

Swe/Den or Brandenburg
Russia
Poland

 

[unmerged(41172)]

Tem,

Choose a country and find a sub if we start earlier.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

EARTH to NAB, EARTH to NAB.
Morale bonus WAS 0.5 before 1.08 . NOW it is 0.15 . I'm fairly sure I told you once or twice already. The fact is DoTF was overpowered, now its a small add-on that can make a slight difference, but its truly arguable whether 1000 ducats of additional troops isn't better.

Nah Temu, the old boost was 0.15 but some releases ago it was changed to 0.5 and that is what it is now. 100%.

 

[HolisticGod]

Cas,

There are a lot of problems with the scenario.

Ryo has always had a nasty habit of recklessly tweaking things, moving things around, etc., without considering the consequences. I haven't done a thorough check of tax and manpower yet (I suggest everybody combs it through to see what pops out), but right off the bat we have two very serious issues:

1. France and Spain have equal land tech. Traditionally, in a 1492, this means Spain is dead meat. It has no colonies, no exploration done yet, less manpower, less morale and less income. And it's pre-fire, so El Gran Capitan is useless. In the regular scenario and PE 1492, Spain starts with 7 LT, allowing it to vault ahead to 9. In return, the Ottomans also have 7 LT, which is a major part of their early military momentum.

Removing this is historically ludicrous (the Tercio, more advanced Spanish and Ottoman fire tactics and the general superiority of Ottoman troops), but it's also terribly unbalancing. Slows down the Turks during their peak and wrecks Western Europe.

2. Equalized economic techs. This makes life very hard on Spain, the Ottoman Empire and Venice. It's also historically inaccurate and... Well, a gross oversimplification.

Fred just told me everybody's in Latin too. If that's so, well, make that number three. And I'm going to start combing the scenario to see what else is wrong.

You can't just change whatever you want. The game is very carefully balanced (at least at the PE stage of development) and messing around is the best to ruin a game. That's why so many groups that gave Ryo's 1492 a spin abandoned it after just one go.

I seriously hope we're retooling the scenario as needed before we start.

EDIT: And what exactly does "minimal events" mean?

 

[unmerged(41172)]

And what exactly does "minimal events" mean?

It means game is ahistorical and phrase "historically ludicrous" looses its sense - my vote would go in the direction of the historical events

 

[HolisticGod]

Nabu,

Aye. Just reviewed the file.

Mine too. It's a very bad idea to cut out so many historical events from, ahem, an historical scenario. They're part of the game balance, a la leaders, monarchs, DPs, tax , manpower, position, etc. And by the same token, expanding all of these random events to be so important (i.e. 5, 10 and 20K random tech investments for nothing) and so damaging (some of them quite damaging, and there are so many) reduces player control and worsens the problem of bad RNG determining a country's fate. For example, in BOP last week DSY got five plagues and I think two political crises. I got four unhappiness among the peasants (fortunately, all at -3 stab). In that situation, a whole session (thirty years in this case) is lost. With Ryo's events, the luck-driven disparity between countries will be much steeper. And it's not as if any of the events are very interesting or add flavor to the game, so why bother with them?

I'm also a little perplexed by the tax base and manpower choices in Eastern Europe... We need to look at this whole mod very closely.

 

[Casluerj]

Cas,

There are a lot of problems with the scenario.

Ryo has always had a nasty habit of recklessly tweaking things, moving things around, etc., without considering the consequences. I haven't done a thorough check of tax and manpower yet (I suggest everybody combs it through to see what pops out), but right off the bat we have two very serious issues:

1. France and Spain have equal land tech. Traditionally, in a 1492, this means Spain is dead meat. It has no colonies, no exploration done yet, less manpower, less morale and less income. And it's pre-fire, so El Gran Capitan is useless. In the regular scenario and PE 1492, Spain starts with 7 LT, allowing it to vault ahead to 9. In return, the Ottomans also have 7 LT, which is a major part of their early military momentum.

Removing this is historically ludicrous (the Tercio, more advanced Spanish and Ottoman fire tactics and the general superiority of Ottoman troops), but it's also terribly unbalancing. Slows down the Turks during their peak and wrecks Western Europe.

2. Equalized economic techs. This makes life very hard on Spain, the Ottoman Empire and Venice. It's also historically inaccurate and... Well, a gross oversimplification.

Fred just told me everybody's in Latin too. If that's so, well, make that number three. And I'm going to start combing the scenario to see what else is wrong.

You can't just change whatever you want. The game is very carefully balanced (at least at the PE stage of development) and messing around is the best to ruin a game. That's why so many groups that gave Ryo's 1492 a spin abandoned it after just one go.

I seriously hope we're retooling the scenario as needed before we start.

EDIT: And what exactly does "minimal events" mean?

Well, I followed the thread that Fredrik created here closely and this scen seems to be playable for me. Because of that I choosed to give this new map, and mod, a chance.

However if the majority of the players prefers to play a PE until R.y.o.'s mod is tested and balanced (and then play it in EGA6) I am ok... What I want is to have a great AND balanced game now...

So we have 3 choices:

1) Play with this scenario, the way it is now and see what happens;

2) Play with this scenario but with some changes, ie, customize this scen, so it can be more playable and balanced;

3) Do 1492's PE or 1492's R.y.o.

Joohoo reporting for duty

Hey! Good to see you

Do you prefer Swe or Den?

I'd like to sign up btw, but I can only starting second saturday of February. If it starts earlier, I'll probably have to opt out, because I want to finish IER and first saturday of Feb I'm gone.

Have you decided which date we will start on?

I was considering to have as a start date next Sat or the 21th one... But considering that we're now having this scen issues I dont know anymore... I hope soon.