Europe's Golden Age 3

[Tem_Probe]

I'm curious Tem, would it be possible for you to send the shigure's randomizer to my e-mail? I'm curious to see how it works and perhaps use it for othergames but I can't find it on the forums anywhere.

e-mail is. mhaberer@golden.net

Finally finished the edit. I'm sending you the save game and the randomiser zipped over e-mail. The leader files that were randomised and then edited for this game were included as well, for backup. I am not certain what will happen to randomised leaders when people change tag(I'm thinking Castile to Spain, Moscow to Russia and Brandenburg to Prussia), and I don't want anyone to lose leaders if they don't carry over(not sure). If they don't carry over, we can always edit them back after the game. I'll also keep a backup copy, in case you overwrite it.

 

[K'shar]

Finally finished the edit. I'm sending you the save game and the randomiser zipped over e-mail. The leader files that were randomised and then edited for this game were included as well, for backup. I am not certain what will happen to randomised leaders when people change tag(I'm thinking Castile to Spain, Moscow to Russia and Brandenburg to Prussia), and I don't want anyone to lose leaders if they don't carry over(not sure). If they don't carry over, we can always edit them back after the game. I'll also keep a backup copy, in case you overwrite it.

thx, mate i'm looking it over right now. I was just thinking that the new Econ tech costs are gonna make it hell for orthodox nations like us and Russia .

 

[Joohoo]

If we go with these numbers, I would go with the following:

Nations with a definite naval focus(25 admirals, 15 generals): England, Venice, Portugal, Denmark
Nations with a definite land focus(25 generals, 15 admirals): Russia, Poland, Brandenburg, Mughals
Balanced nations(20 generals, 20 admirals): France, Spain, Ottoman, Sweden

it was this post that made me worried because Austria is not in it. Welll whatever, going to eat breakfast now and later get on with Halif-Life 2 again

 

[Tem_Probe]

it was this post that made me worried because Austria is not in it. Welll whatever, going to eat breakfast now and later get on with Halif-Life 2 again

Oops! :rofl: Austria got its leaders randomised too, no worries

 

[Tem_Probe]

thx, mate i'm looking it over right now. I was just thinking that the new Econ tech costs are gonna make it hell for orthodox nations like us and Russia .

From my experience, Russia has more troubles than Ottomans keeping up in tech. It takes more skill to keep up with tech levels as the Russians, although most player manage to keep up in landtech and to lag a bit in economy tech(with trade tech almost non-existent). Ottomans, on the other hand, usually manage better. Their problem usually lies less in keeping up in economy tech than it is of keeping up in naval tech, which most players usually can't manage to do at all. And lets face it, being down a techlevel in infra hurts Ottomans less than being down 45 levels in naval in the late game period. Currently, as Mughals, I'm less worried about economy tech than stabcost. There are only 2 of my provinces which are sunni, so it'll be conversion hell over here. I'm much more worried about high inflation if I get bad luck converting India. I'm still thinking about how to manage that. Just Delhi costs 475$ to try converting, at 40% chance of success. That's one point of inflation right there for me if I mint. I wish for a random conversion :rofl: I'll start worrying about techlevels when I figure out a solution to my conversion problem, or when I start to notice major lagging.

 

[Casluerj]

Temujin,

Can you plz send the save for me too?? casluerj@yahoo.com.br

BTW, I'l consider making some edits to delhi... do you need sth?

EDITS:My thoughts:

- 150d (as I gave to the others)
- Delhi converted to Sunni.
- Inflation .5%

If this Delhi can be playable. What the others think to give Delhi Orthodox Tech Group, so we wont be far behind us in tech?? I want you to say yes or no telling why...

 

[unmerged(30948)]

Dear GM,
(once You got the save) can You move my capital from Tula to Moskva?
It's eth for fun and we accepted a scenario,
but I look at history playing EU II ...

Good luck to my canadienne friend Temu (I ignore His real name).

 

[Joohoo]

thanks
but plz don't laugh a me o

 

[unmerged(27108)]

Tomorrow, i'll have only 4 hours to play, beginning at 17 GMT. Grandparents are coming!

Maybe we can start 1/2 hour earlier?

 

[K'shar]

Tomorrow, i'll have only 4 hours to play, beginning at 17 GMT. Grandparents are coming!

Maybe we can start 1/2 hour earlier?

Fine, by me but I do believe it's too short notice for everyone.

edits: alright the edits are redone, with Sweden left out due to no response about Sweden's wants. Denmark has been edited as per earendhils +2 request 0% inflation and 150d. Chas's absence edits have also been completed. Cas I need a response to my pm pre-game thx.

 

[Casluerj]

Fine, by me but I do believe it's too short notice for everyone.

edits: alright the edits are redone, with Sweden left out due to no response about Sweden's wants. Denmark has been edited as per earendhils +2 request 0% inflation and 150d. Chas's absence edits have also been completed. Cas I need a response to my pm pre-game thx.

Done.

K'shar also move russian capitol to Moskva, plz.

No opnions if Delhi should gain Orthodox tech group?

Bal, I think I'll be online 1/2 earlier, but I agree with K'shar: Its too early... But if everyone appears why not? But Cicero and Med wont like it and without them no game.

 

[Tem_Probe]

Temujin,

Can you plz send the save for me too?? casluerj@yahoo.com.br

BTW, I'l consider making some edits to delhi... do you need sth?

EDITS:My thoughts:

- 150d (as I gave to the others)
- Delhi converted to Sunni.
- Inflation .5%

If this Delhi can be playable. What the others think to give Delhi Orthodox Tech Group, so we wont be far behind us in tech?? I want you to say yes or no telling why...

Honestly, I already edited the Orthodox techgroup as I thought that had been decided already. Delhi to sunni would be great, and I'd happily take .5 or 1% inflation to have it pre-game. Don't think I need much anything else. Delhi is in a much better shape than Timurid was, thank god.

 

[K'shar]

Honestly, I already edited the Orthodox techgroup as I thought that had been decided already. Delhi to sunni would be great, and I'd happily take .5 or 1% inflation to have it pre-game. Don't think I need much anything else. Delhi is in a much better shape than Timurid was, thank god.

Edit done. I switched the capital and transferred 20,000 people from Yaraslavl to the "New" Moscow.

Nothing against Tem or the mughals but personally I vote against moving them to the orthodox tech group, for two primary reasons.

One is based on comparison, on top of having literally no natural enemies (the OE is still rather far away), a Mughal empire with all of India plus some and having orthodox tech really starts to make nations like Russia look unpromising. I already tend to think that nations like Russia are already underpowered in EU2 but with this sort of setup comparitivily Russia will always be far weaker then an antiquated asian empire. Sure for much of the 15th, 16th century this was the case but I just think this kind of arrangment sets the balance of power way out of focus. India as a region (under 1 power minus-china) is already possible the wealthiest in the world, tax and production wise.

Two; be aware that any colonial nations hoping to have a chance in India are going to be sorely dissapointed, as 1v1 there will be hardly any competition with a buffed up Mughal Empire. States like Portugal that often get a large sum of their income from India will find that by the time they're rdy to colonize or go COT grabbing they'll face an enormous Empire standing in their way and preventing any possibility of European growth. With the Timurids it made good sense as the fight to just acquire their cores would have slowed them down some, as it is the only issue that will slow Tem down will be conversions.

This matter in game means less to me in fact then Europe's colonial nations as Delhi will for most of the game be a distant power from the OE, so don't worry about my private ambitions , I just wanted to prepare you guys for either a closed off India or expensive one.

 

[Chas]

Nothing against Tem or the mughals but personally I vote against moving them to the orthodox tech group

I agree with you K'shar. For your reasons, and because while some editing of history in favour of playability is reasonable, making Delhi any sort of tech country is way too much. I sympathise with the difficulties this will give Tem in a MP game, but he does have the option of a European country etc.

 

[Tem_Probe]

The thing is, yes, with muslim tech, I probably will still do fine vs AI, but I most likely will still do well vs the local AI. But pretty much all my historical events are there to kill my stability and incite revolts. You know how much muslim tech hurts Ottoman, and that's why most players prefer to go the hard way and take the -6 stability and 10 RR instead. With Muslim tech, I'll essentially spend 90% of the game playing Single player against AI, since I'll probably always be a CRT behind, thus making any wars for me vs another player a waste of my time. And who'll wage a war a CRT behind? Not me. With Orthodox tech, I could get involved outside the immediate Indian peninsula and try to affect the Europeans outside of a defensive pattern. I thought that was the whole idea of getting an eastern power being played. With muslim techgroup, I'll most likely just end up a pawn for one of the western nations, whoever happens to pay the most.

 

[Chas]

The thing is, yes, with muslim tech, I probably will still do fine vs AI, but I most likely will still do well vs the local AI. But pretty much all my historical events are there to kill my stability and incite revolts. You know how much muslim tech hurts Ottoman, and that's why most players prefer to go the hard way and take the -6 stability and 10 RR instead. With Muslim tech, I'll essentially spend 90% of the game playing Single player against AI, since I'll probably always be a CRT behind, thus making any wars for me vs another player a waste of my time. And who'll wage a war a CRT behind? Not me. ......With muslim techgroup, I'll most likely just end up a pawn for one of the western nations, whoever happens to pay the most

This seems to me to be a fair prediction of what will happen. Good reason not to play them.

With Orthodox tech, I could get involved outside the immediate Indian peninsula and try to affect the Europeans outside of a defensive pattern. I thought that was the whole idea of getting an eastern power being played.

Well, I think K'shars summary of the effect on e.g. Portugal was more accurate, and if that's what the GM's want, then fair enough, but personally I'd prefer something a bit less fantasy-like.

 

[Casluerj]

I think we need a lot of discussions about this issue, everyone here is argumenting well and I cant take a decision now.

One idea, is making to Delhi an event similar to OE, so if he choose Orthodox he will take some penalties. My idea is to make this event fire in 1600s, so until there Delhi will be a Muslim Tech nation, so there is plenty of time to Portugal grab sth in Sri Lanka or India.

Anyway, for this session Delhi will be a Muslim Tech Nation and I would like that you guys say sth, during the week, about this event. This would prevent that Delhi be a dog late in the game and would prevent a Super Delhi now.

Session in 1h15min... See You soon.

 

[Tem_Probe]

Well, I think K'shars summary of the effect on e.g. Portugal was more accurate, and if that's what the GM's want, then fair enough, but personally I'd prefer something a bit less fantasy-like.

Not really. I don't foresee stopping people from colonising Asia, that would be silly. Indian peninsula is another matter, but even then compromises can be reached. Normally, there are only three provinces opened to colonisation in India in 1492. In this one, there are 8 provinces open(not counting Ceylon island). What are the odds that I can monopolise all of them, being a muslim? Without slider move, I'll have 0.2 colonists a year when I have a border with an uncolonised province. Not that I won't try to own them mind you. But I don't see myself actively sabotaging everything done in the area, like some people seem to expect. Even if I did, the loss of 3 potential provinces wouldn't hurt Portugal, he'd just colonise more of Indonesia, South Africa and Brasil; all of which are strategically and income-wise much more important. The only barrier Portugal or England might encounter, is when they want to do the usual grab of Bengal CoT. They'll find 20k troops won't be enough to beat me there. But then again, that move is usually just AI bashing too. I don't think anyone can claim a divine right to easily acquired AI land anyway, except whoever gets to it quicker usually. And for the record, the Portuguese historically bribed their way into India, and only did so with the help and consent of a man named Babur if I recall my history correctly. Only the English were powerful enough to force their way into India, and then again, only in the 1700s in a period where the Mughals were having very severe internal unrest. Even when the English "seized power", they only governed India through the Mughal khan. In the Napoleonic era, they could not govern India directly. They only managed to rule India directly at the height of their power, a while after Napoleon fell, in the late 1800s.

 

[Tem_Probe]

I think we need a lot of discussions about this issue, everyone here is argumenting well and I cant take a decision now.

One idea, is making to Delhi an event similar to OE, so if he choose Orthodox he will take some penalties. My idea is to make this event fire in 1600s, so until there Delhi will be a Muslim Tech nation, so there is plenty of time to Portugal grab sth in Sri Lanka or India.

Anyway, for this session Delhi will be a Muslim Tech Nation and I would like that you guys say sth, during the week, about this event. This would prevent that Delhi be a dog late in the game and would prevent a Super Delhi now.

Session in 1h15min... See You soon.

Actually, I like that idea. Babur was the great conqueror, and Akbar was the great reformer. The edited event effect could conceivably be put at the end of the rule of Akbar, in the 1600s. That's when I'll most need the techgroup to keep up.

 

[Casluerj]

Guys, game in 15 min in EUII room... plz dont get late... so we can start on time.

Dont forget to install the new patch.