Europe's Golden Age 2

[Veilwalker]

It isn't that we don't want you to play it has been there has been a long song and dance with regards with what to do with Venice. There isn't much left to Venice and there isn't much hope for any brighter future for them either. Their time passed when France returned for vengeance and everyone stood aside and the OE jumped into that war to grab African possessions and during that conflict the entire Venetian navy was destroyed. I don't remember if it was the next session or the following one that I moved to Russia since that perm took some time off. Venice has been offlimits since then until Cas somehow brought them in to his alliance, which he really shouldn't have done but that is another story.

The point is there is no future for Venice. Any one of her neighbors could grind her up and in the wars to come Venice won't even be a footnote because it is too small to make a difference in these future conflicts.

I don't know what the mughals looked like in your previous game but in this one they are abutting against the OE, Russia, Spain, possibly France and soon Sweden so to say that they are out of the way and boring would be a gross understatement of the true position that the mughals are in at the moment.

 

[Alfonso V]

thx for expalinment of Venice! but i still hate mughals and their culture :rofl:

 

[Casluerj]

It is important to consider that when I brought Venice to my alliance and she was offlimit, I said that It was my mistake (as misuderstanding the word offlimit) and I immediatly ban them (when DOWed Huron they didnt honoured and I didnt invite it anymore). And I said that she was going to be offlimit for just that week.

Then in the other week, when she wasnt, officially, offlimit anymore I brought them to protect the balance of power in Europe.

So I didnt have a Venice as ally during its time of offlimit. And I would much prefer that Alfonso play the Mughals and I've already explained to him its situation, with Orthodox tech group, a lot of possibilites and etc. But He insisted in Venice and I dont see why we couldnt give one more shot to Venice, if he is saying that he is going to be a regular permanent.

I cant fail as player or as human, but when i GM i always try to fight for the game, doing everything i can for proporcionate a good time for ya, which i think i am accomplishing until now (see the post that i wrote yesterday).

I love different opnions, btw I always ask for your help when I was creating our rules (in fact we create it together) and I've always heard you. But I cant support being attacked as an unfair GM.

 

[Alfonso V]

no problem. then i hope i can join another game at weekend!

 

[Veilwalker]

I still don't think we should add back a human Venice player. We have a pretty stable group now and adding a new player in a "new" nation in the middle of the current ruckus seems a bit silly at this stage of the game.

I think we should put it to a vote of our current players. Do we want to bring back Venice as a Human player?

Nothing against Alfonso but at this point I do not see the need for a human player in venice but at the end of the day whether venice is run by a human or by the AI makes no difference to me since I am quite a ways away from them.

 

[unmerged(23007)]

I am against, nthing personal to Alfonso but we kept Venice untouched for 2 session i think, now when she became a alter-goal of spain i think placing there a player would be just unfair. We let Venice AI, Eng took it into alliance, i think its justifyed to not let somebody play it.

 

[Veilwalker]

Is there something odd with the save game? I loaded it up and looked over my nation and now I can create 6k troops out of my far east conscription center when at the end of last session I could only create 2k...am I missing something?

If I can actually churn out 6k troops there I think I will keep that CC where it is.

 

[Cicero]

i think adding a new venice player at this point is a very bad idea, it seems unfair especially for K´shar, he will probably grab a lot of italian land in this war.
france is aiming to a diplo vassallation of venice, this plan will also be dead with a human venice player.
spain and france both would have done a totally different itlian politics if we would have known venice will become human again. we let venice off-limits long enough waiting for a sub, now its too late since it was a major objective during last war.

 

[Casluerj]

Is there something odd with the save game? I loaded it up and looked over my nation and now I can create 6k troops out of my far east conscription center when at the end of last session I could only create 2k...am I missing something?

If I can actually churn out 6k troops there I think I will keep that CC where it is.

Maybe when you tested your stability was very low and now your have recovered your stab

So if you guys dont want it Venice is closed. Alfonso really sry for that. If you want to play with us we have Mughals... sry again Alfonso, really sry.

 

[Alfonso V]

no problem, mughal stay unplayable!

 

[Veilwalker]

My stability hasn't changed...I am thinking it was just lag in the game. I have seen that happen before especially with monarchs. Where the should have shown up but they don't until after a rehost. I hope that is it and that I am not setting myself up for a rude surprise when we get in game and I am back to only kicking out 2k troops for my CC, lol.

 

[K'shar]

Well thats alot more discussion i'd say, and more along the lines I was expecting. It's a shame that Alfonso won't choose the Mughals as it would be nice to have him play anyhow. This is the situation that I was most afraid of . We give the impression a country is open and then close it on him, I guess I simply would have wanted this discussed before hand. My take was simply that after the last session no one would assume Venice is playable, but I guess the saying "better now then never" still holds.

I'm still not sure where I said your decisions were "gamey" (and hence aimed towards GM abuse) cas? I'll repeat myself clearly ... I was voicing the opinion that the current situation did not fairly allow for a new human player in Venice and I couldn't understand your assumption that it could. I was clearly asking for an explanation that I could not and still can not see, you never provided this but simply accused me of doing likewise to you. When I posted my first opinion passionatly it was directed at the body of your players not you, so again im at a loss for your reasoning.

Matter seems closed anyhow so if you'd rather leave it that way im fine with that.

 

[K'shar]

Ill check the CC situation, but i'm right in understanding that if it works. You want to keep it in Siberia ??

edit: well the CC is generating 6k so I guess your leave it eh? It really should work in the game so i'll have my fingers crossed for ya.

 

[Veilwalker]

Yes you are correct K'shar. If it is actually capable of creating 6k troops then I will be ok with leaving it where it is. I will need the add'l troops in order to finish off my conquests of the Manchu's. Though it is still a bit crazy to have the CC out in eastern siberia.

 

[K'shar]

we'll refer to it as a cossack military camp.

 

[Casluerj]

Im confused as to why now we are recruiting a Venice player? Would it not make more sense that we have a Mughal Empire considering their far better position and previous edits?

I simply fail to see why earlier when Venice was in far better shape and an ally of Spain you all decided for no venice (and a mughal empire) and now that the AI venice is an ally of England and practically occupied you welcome a player in?

It all seems rather odd to me.

Venice is a playable nation, it was played by Dago last session, you know him, ask him if its possible and funny playing them.

Mughal Empire is also a good option... they are now darn big and with a good boost, like money, DP settings, inflation and change in tech group it would be a real great power... actually would be very funny, we would have a counter to OE in Midle East and Spain in India.

It is up to you...

As you can see I didnt decided for "no Venice". On the contrary I showed Med this two option and ask for his decision... What can I do if he prefered Mughals?

And I did the same to Alfonso. I thought it would be good if we got one more player and I offered him the nations that, in my point of view, were open. Even saying that Mughals would be much more funny he prefered Venice... once again: what could I do?

I hope this is the final poitn to this discussion.

 

[Veilwalker]

The problem is that there were 2 sessions between the discussion when Med came back and the discussion now and unfortunately for Venice they have been battered quite successfully by Spain.

 

[Alfonso V]

Peole i might join u in your next game if u play again this time. It's very good for me. I dont like mughals so much u can see. I prefer venice even if its doomed then mughals! see u on the field!

 

[K'shar]

I'll do the edits on the first post. If there are any new ones I need to know soon. See you all in game.

Addition to edits: Transfer from Spain to Austria 6,000.

 

[unmerged(34301)]

I have a fairly momentous announcement to make.

Sweden, after a great deal of consideration, has decided to realign itself with Spain. The growing power of England and France has become a major threat to the balance of power, and at their present rate of growth and with the lack of acceptably decent army commanders in Spain, Sweden fears that total European domination will not be long in coming. While Sweden has in the past opposed Spain due to the threat to the power balance that she posed, we now align with this great nation to keep the balance in place. Sweden will remain out of the presently declared war, but will defend Spain in future conflicts in the interest of the power balance.

Captain Bob, Lord Chancellor of Sweden, Duke of Skane, etc.

*OOC*
Sorry guys, but I really think that with France and England coming into such excellent leaders that Spain and Austria will get massacred. Sweden changing sides will force England to divert her attention from the French front and make this fight a lot more even. Spain would already be in ruin if not for France's accidental loss of Villars, and I think the next war will be even nastier. I really enjoyed being in your alliance, and I hope you don't take it personally .