Europe's Golden Age 2

[unmerged(34301)]

Well Captain Panda, Sweden is going to be a strong colonial power for 2 reasons. First, our vassalization with England is not without its benefits. Second, we have, I believe, been quite reasonable in my dealings and therefore have earned the trust of Spain and several other nations, which means that they are willing to negotiate with me. If you had remained in the English sphere, you would also perhaps be a part of this discussion. But that's the way it goes, it seems.

Anyways, Cicero remember that you colonize only England's unclaimed areas, as per our agreement last session. So if the Queen agrees, then it's ok I guess.

As for the Spanish proposal, it's totally ridiculous, gaining Spain essentially hegemony over all of the Indian Ocean. I have a different, perhaps better, proposal.

It's like the TOT. It only applies in the Indian Ocean and Far East. Everything East of Ganges is the English sphere of influence. West of it is Spanish, though of course France has placed a claim on southern India, which seems reasonable to me. Anyways, this would give Spain the Ganges COT and England the Malacca COT and de facto control over the distribution of the Chinese COTs. I haven't checked this idea with England, so it is of course subject to their approval. I hope Spain can also agree with this plan. This idea should prevent any one nation from becoming overpoweringly strong in this part of the world.

 

[unmerged(2349)]

It's like the TOT. It only applies in the Indian Ocean and Far East. Everything East of Ganges is the English sphere of influence. West of it is Spanish, though of course France has placed a claim on southern India, which seems reasonable to me. Anyways, this would give Spain the Ganges COT and England the Malacca COT and de facto control over the distribution of the Chinese COTs. I haven't checked this idea with England, so it is of course subject to their approval. I hope Spain can also agree with this plan. This idea should prevent any one nation from becoming overpoweringly strong in this part of the world.

If Spain agrees to that, then I´m going to laugh my ass off There is nothing west of Ganges.

And I just think it sounds silly when you say: I lay claim to this and that, you have absolutely no claim to it. No realistic ones at least.

 

[unmerged(34301)]

Am I thinking the wrong COT? It seems to me that...all of India is west of Ganges. And also the Western Indian is nothing to laugh at. Though England may object to the idea of losing its two colonies there, but I'm sure that we can work around that. Captain Panda...I really don't see the problem with my plan. Additionally...unless you have a better idea, don't criticize others. The three of us are trying to come to an equitable agreement here, and you aren't helping.

P.S. And the claim is quite real if everyone who knows of the area agrees to it. As only (to my knowledge) Spain, England, France, and Sweden know enough about the area to colonize it, and France agreed not to interfere in English colonization, the negotiation is between Sweden, England, and Spain, with France hoping to be included (and I think that they will be accomodated in this).

 

[Veilwalker]

Perhaps I do have the Hapsburgs favor but it did me no good over the past 20 years. Not only did they make some arrangement with France to smooth her way for an invasion of my territory but they have also stood by while the Ottoman Empire ravaged and stole my colonial holdings.

Venice has no room for expansion and has no explorers or conquistadors to send forth to discover new lands to colonize. The future is quite bleak for Venice. She will inexorably slide into obscurity. Sending forth merchants and becoming a trading power is seemingly the only avenue of growth but even that is limited with no colonial holdings and it is a far cry from an interesting and fun game to have your only task being sending out merchants, very boring, hell I could click on autosend merchant and then leave the room just checking back every once in a while to make sure we didn't have a drop and needed to rehost.

West of the Ganges is all of mainland India. I believe our former danish comrade is thinking of Goa which is on the far west coast of India while Ganges is the furthest point east of mainland India.

 

[Casluerj]

Dear Spanish King, as I already said Ganges is not for sale as they are essencial to keep the balance of power in India... One cot for me one for you. This is fair and wont be discussed anymore by me.

About Malacca, I think you can have if you let me hold gangzhou. You must recognize that you already have 4 COT (+malacca=5), while I only have one! So, Honorable King, plz learn that you arent the only country who can claim COTs. I need at least more 2 COTs to be satisfied and to become a power at least closer under your power and those will be Ganges and Gangzhou while Shangai will be Swedish.

French King, England agrees to let the southern India be colonize by your great Kingdom, as long as you respect Spain in Sri Lanka and west India and England in Bengal. So Honorable Knight is welcome to this great conference.

Veilwalker, I've just offered OE for you if you wanted, coz you said that play Venice would be funny anymore... BTW, Venice or Denmark can become a Colonial power as in every others MP games... How?? Buying maps from others colonial powers. This was what Sweden did and that's why they became a great colonial power. The price was to become English Vassal. But there is a lot of other things to payment like directly gold. In my last MP game, I played BB and bought Dutch map for 3000d. this is only an example.

It is very easy to say that the game is boring because this or that nation are friends...the hard is to make the game funny by yourself. Use your head, this is a game of infinity possibilities, I am sure that i would have fun playing any nation. In EUII doesnt exist a winner but a winner side, be at that side in 1820!

 

[Casluerj]

Captian Panda, it isnt clear for me yet: You wont be able to play THIS sunday or any sunday anymore?

 

[unmerged(2349)]

West of the Ganges is all of mainland India. I believe our former danish comrade is thinking of Goa which is on the far west coast of India while Ganges is the furthest point east of mainland India.

My mistake...but then again, who wants India?

 

[unmerged(2349)]

Captian Panda, it isnt clear for me yet: You wont be able to play THIS sunday or any sunday anymore?

I thought I made it rather clear I won´t be playing THIS sunday, I don´t know about next, depends on what happens, both in your session and the other game.

 

[unmerged(2349)]

P.S. And the claim is quite real if everyone who knows of the area agrees to it. As only (to my knowledge) Spain, England, France, and Sweden know enough about the area to colonize it, and France agreed not to interfere in English colonization, the negotiation is between Sweden, England, and Spain, with France hoping to be included (and I think that they will be accomodated in this).

Maybe you should include the Chinese in your negotiation....?

What I mean is that you don´t have a claim to it as such(meaning it´s not like Shanghai was ever a swedish city). That was all I meant.

 

[unmerged(27108)]

Maybe you should include the Chinese in your negotiation....?

What I mean is that you don´t have a claim to it as such(meaning it´s not like Shanghai was ever a swedish city). That was all I meant.

I agree on this one.

 

[unmerged(27108)]

Balinus unfortunatelly 60 years is 60 years.... I create this rule and the one that says: " no edits during sessions but only between sessions", so you will have your cores next session... But why you are asking only 3... doenst you have more long time provs??

Well, it's because of this rule " no edits during sessions but only between sessions" that i asked to edits cores since it was only a matter of 2 yrs. Why only 3 prov? Well, the other prov were conquered later.

Good day!

 

[unmerged(2349)]

I agree on this one.

Thanks

 

[unmerged(34301)]

Well we are all entitled to our own opinion. China isn't the colonizer, it's the one being colonized. So haha China gets to suffer. Anyways, I am awaiting Spain's response to England's counterproposal with interest.

 

[K'shar]

The english proposal will still be analyzed in depth, but the initial rumour from the chambers of the Escorial are not positive.

Cicero, alas for your interests in southern India as that is the only region that Spain holds interest, in reference to the sub-continent. If you have a map of the region you undoubtably see that all our colonies are divided by dravidian culture provinces and our general colonial position is far more southern then western Indian. So I cannot confirm your wish to develop a french Empire in southern India. We are of course open to any other proposals in west, east and northern India and have no qualm with France in those regions.

Ad majorem Imperium gloriam,
Felipe II

 

[unmerged(34301)]

Sweden, after a long period of reflection, believes that the present unwillingness of England to negotiate a reasonable agreement in India and China is stifling to Sweden's proposed growth. If England does not present an agreement that is satisfactory to Sweden and reasonable in the eyes of the king of Spain, then I will have no choice but to rise up and throw off the English yoke, and seek my fortune alone. In such a case, Sweden will of course consider continuing these talks, but as its own party, and not as an underling of anyone. We demand that we be considered an equal party at the bargaining table, as this entire discussion was begun by Sweden to begin with. In light of this, and with respect to the King of Spain and the Queen of England, I make the following demands.

1) Sweden will receive two COT's...Shanghai and Guangzhou are the obvious preferences, as Sweden has already expressed a strong interest in China.

2) Spain will receive claim on all of India, but must agree to negotiate with the French a mutually acceptable treaty by which France will gain substantial lands in India, and not be entirely left out of this agreement.

3) England will be granted all the lands of Indonesia...with the exception of Malacca, which, after a short discussion with K'shar, I have agreed should be Spain's by right.

4) England will receive claim on all of Nippon, and thus the COT at Kansai.

This agreement would give everyone 2 COTs (A COT has recently opened in Australia), and even give the French a chance to expand into the Far East. I feel that this is a reasonable agreement, and would appreciate the support of all nations in its enforcement.

 

[K'shar]

Spanish Court:

The State of Sweden's grievances and aspirations are legitimate and recognized by the Spanish Crown. All nations are entitled to an independant foreign policy, Sweden included. As for the colonial situation we whole heartedly accept the Swedish proposal and are willing to enter negotiations with France if they so wish. It is our abject hope that this proposal will be agreed to by the wayward english and that they shall not make any overtly aggresive moves towards Sweden who's independance is guaranteed by Spain.


Ad majorem Imperium gloriam,
Felipe II

 

[unmerged(34301)]

Sweden thanks Spain for it's support, and encourages France to pursue an agreement with Spain. Sweden also would like to express its profound gratitude for the Spanish independence guarantee, though I do not believe that England would sacrifice its relations with Sweden and Spain over something so small as Swedish independence. Sweden, of course, still supports England in its North American and African colonies, and hopes that England will see reason in this matter.

 

[Casluerj]

Let me see if i get the point:

England let Spain have all Indian COTs and Mallaca and Sweden have all Chinese COTs............. and for what??? Hmmmmm, we will gain the poorest COT in Asia (Kansai) and the one in australia ( that has a total of trade of 18d!!!!!!) LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!...... I have to laugh to not consider this an insult...

I am very upset with the Spanish King, who I thought was preocuped with the balance of power, but now i see that he is seeking world dominance... While The king of Spain and the King of Sweden dont recognize that England in Ganges, the conference is over for England so It wont have power anymore. I demand that you reconsider what you wrote immediatly.

I shall repeat Ganges is English, and it will be to Keep balance in India, already so disturbed with the annexation of Portugal by Spain who, if this movement annexed Zanzibar and Goa!

We humble droped our claims in Malacca to Spain make their Empire even Richer and even this way he demand more!!!! And now with the help of my former vassal who can now ONLY colonize because i gave him my maps, while other nations in Europe still restricted to our Continent.

Your obligations with me, Swedish King, will only over when you return the invvestment that i made in you (maps and money). And I dont want that Spain enter in this business since we didnt make any move to keep the independence of Portugal.

I will repeat: I demand RESPECT!!!

 

[K'shar]

English queen, this situation only developed because all of england's offers so greatly favoured that country that it was un-agreeble to either of the other states. England would have had herself gaining 2 cots vs 1 for spain and 1 for sweden in every one of her proposals. This naturally hardly made sense to the other members of the congress.

Unless more reasonable proposals are brought to the table by Elizabeth, this case seems closed.

K'shar

 

[Casluerj]

Balinus sry, but i have to deny your ask..

K'shar, your ask is also denied.... I dont think it is fair to claim cores out of Europe... As a player I would love to have cores in my colonies, but as the GM i must say that this isnt fair... So, for now, we cant have cores on cities out of Europe...but i am open for a discussion on this issue... maybe when a city has 100.000 souls...... dont know.... lets discuss.

BTW, now that I (and BOB) have converted all Irish and Scotish possessions, i claim cores on all those lands... Plz K'shar do it for me. Ireland began with england(1520) and scotland was completely annexed in 1530s so I am able to claim cores on all those provs... they are:

Munster, Connaught, Leinster, Ulster, Meath, Lothian, Strathclyde, The Grampians, The Highlands.

Thx