allright, just let me know in due time if needed, not like 5 mins before the game, then I won't be homeSlargos said:
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You are? Well I'll ICQ you on Sunday then, since we can probably take a few off your hands.Slargos said:
I have absolutly no desire to achieve greatness through editing, and I stand by editing as only a last resort. I point to, as evidence, the fact that even given Venice's dire situation, and my newness to MP, I did not ask for any edits to Badboy or inflation. If I'm not wanted in Persia then I'll stay in Venice.
As for Fal's objections to edits to Persia....
The reason I suggested "beefing up" Persia is because it will likely face a constant hammering by 3 opponents trying to devour it; namely Russia, OE, and the Mughals (being played by Lotus). For the record, I did not suggest putting a large fortress in every provence. What I suggested is that Persia be given some "perks" so that it can survive decades of conflict; namely:
1. A CC and large fort in Istfahan.
2. Ideal DP Settings
3. Infra 5 with Govenors and Judges in every province.
Your statement, as to what you considered a fair edit, is as follows:
Of the three points raised only point 1 is completely unachieveable by a human player (due to tech levels at this time). If you don't want it included, though in my opinion its really not asking for much, I can hardly object. I will note that I suggested the Large fort because the boarder is close to the Persian capital, and the CC because the Sultan has one.
As for point two, if you want to limit the number of "clicks" given to the number of decades played thus far, based on the arguement that a human player could only achieve that much, I won't object.
As for point three, its hardly unfair considering that the OE will have infra 7 shortly. The cost of raising the Judges and Governors would be covered by a single lisence.
So, FAL, the question is: do you still object to these three points? If so, which and why?
I suggested them, but it seems they're taken by Lotus. We'll just have to wait and see if he shows up.
As for Fal's objections to edits to Persia....
FAL said:
FAL said:
The reason I suggested "beefing up" Persia is because it will likely face a constant hammering by 3 opponents trying to devour it; namely Russia, OE, and the Mughals (being played by Lotus). For the record, I did not suggest putting a large fortress in every provence. What I suggested is that Persia be given some "perks" so that it can survive decades of conflict; namely:
1. A CC and large fort in Istfahan.
2. Ideal DP Settings
3. Infra 5 with Govenors and Judges in every province.
Your statement, as to what you considered a fair edit, is as follows:
FAL said:
Of the three points raised only point 1 is completely unachieveable by a human player (due to tech levels at this time). If you don't want it included, though in my opinion its really not asking for much, I can hardly object. I will note that I suggested the Large fort because the boarder is close to the Persian capital, and the CC because the Sultan has one.
As for point two, if you want to limit the number of "clicks" given to the number of decades played thus far, based on the arguement that a human player could only achieve that much, I won't object.
As for point three, its hardly unfair considering that the OE will have infra 7 shortly. The cost of raising the Judges and Governors would be covered by a single lisence.
So, FAL, the question is: do you still object to these three points? If so, which and why?
I suggested them, but it seems they're taken by Lotus. We'll just have to wait and see if he shows up.
Im sorry to intervene in this discussion, but those requests are just outright mad
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Mulliman said:Im sorry to intervene in this discussion, but those requests are just outright mad
Opinions supported with reason carry much more weight then opinions that are just thrown out on their own, unsupported.
Alright then. My reason for thinking those requests are outright mad are because A) however noble your reasons are for trying to keep a would-be player nation alive through edits and stuff, you dont deserve them. If you move to another nation, either through your own actions causing that nation to be unplayable or whatever, the new nation should get like one or two DP clicks, nothing more. Should Persia be revived in your game, you would just have to try and stay alive, without some gift from above.BlkbrryTheGreat said:Opinions supported with reason carry much more weight then opinions that are just thrown out on their own, unsupported.
Think about it? Where is the challenge if you get all this:
1. A CC and large fort in Istfahan.
2. Ideal DP Settings
3. Infra 5 with Govenors and Judges in every province.
Wouldnt it be all too easy?
B) Those requests are all too high, even if it would be a nation in the middle of Europe, a nation like Austria or something. The only thing she would get would be perhaps an inflation lowering if required or one DP click plus starting cash..
Deserve them?
How the heck do you deserve an edit? Regardless, I'm not trying to edit Venice, and im not trying to edit Persia enough to make it "alive", I'm trying to get edit them edited to the point where they won't lose lose half the country in a single war. Everyone seems to think that I'm asking for too much- If you really think that its best that Persia remain poor and feeble then I'll just stick it out with Venice (assuming Lotus shows up); at least I have a vested interest in seeing them devoured as slowly as possible .
Why is that, and why should an exception not be made for Persia, which is merely being prepped to be devoured?
With the OE, Russia, and the ME preparing to devour Persia? I think not.
I have already conceeded on point one, and toned back point two to realistic levels. OE will have infra 7 within a year. What, specifically, about these requests makes them "too high".
BlkbrryTheGreat said:Deserve them?
I agree with 'deserve' is not a term useful for the current sitiation. Blkberry is asking for edits to Persia to make the scramble for Persia a more difficult, long fought and in the end more fun thing to do.
And I think the edits do that. Make the Persians a more difficult enemy, and if very good played maybe they could survive the onslaught.
A nation having only enemies as neighbours shouldn't have a chance of winning, really.. ie. they need to seek the friendship of one or two of them instead of getting beefed up to the point where they can take on three major nations at the same time or in fairly quick succession. If the nation isn't viable because it can't HAVE friendship, then it shouldn't be beefed up till it is.
I admit that it is rather difficult to get a good diplomatic position from a longtime AI country, but if it isn't possible, then the nation simply shouldn't be played.
I admit that it is rather difficult to get a good diplomatic position from a longtime AI country, but if it isn't possible, then the nation simply shouldn't be played.
BlkbrryTheGreat said:Deserve them?
If you wish to change nation you can become new stadholder of Holland as I dont currently have time for the diplomacy that is quit vital for Holland and I can move to Venice for making it somewhat harder for Italy being consumed.
Holland did miss the best years for its growth but still it has potential and with luck and positive stability it will become rich nation with medium colonial holdings. This way you get decent nation you can play to the end without just aiming for some war before death.
ForzaA said:
OTOH, a beefed up country can be a possible better friend then. Persia as it is now, it is simply too weak to be a valuable friend (well, not that weak, but you got the idea).
And since currently Blkberry is asking for governors (a thing that a human persia could had done) and ideal DP (well, maybe ideal is too much, but several clicks could be in order).
Anyway, and I am thinking of Rezag offer now, I definitely prefer that the situation is settled ASAP. Until the tzar knows what countries will be played and what is the GM ruling regarding Persia, every single russian diplomatic negotiation and talk is stopped. Ambassadors can enjoy whatever city they are in until further instructions.
ForzaA said:
I don't think the "beefing" I've requested is overboard, correct me if I'm wrong.
I also think its wrong to assume that Persia won't be active diplomatically.
I am in favour of some limited edits, a few DP clicks, Possibly governors, but I don't know much about Persia, so I don't really know what to suggest.
If, and it's a big "if" really as I'm not convinced making Persia a player nation is a good idea, but if it is made so then infra 5 and governors plus a few DP slider moves is reasonable - ideal slider moves is definately not reasonable.
I think it would be better to take Rezag up on his offer frankly and/or act as first sub until Lotus fails to show :rofl: at which point you can play the Mughals!
I think it would be better to take Rezag up on his offer frankly and/or act as first sub until Lotus fails to show :rofl: at which point you can play the Mughals!
Wyvern said:
I've stated my case and backed it, to the best of my ability, with supporting reasons. Persia's two neighbors don't object to Persia being "beefed" as long as its in line with what a human player could have achieved. At this point its up to Slargos to decide, what if anything should be done to Persia (and the Mughals for that matter). I'll trust in his veteran judgement on this matter. If absolutly nothing is edited with Persia, then I'll stick with Venice. If Lotus dosen't show- then I'll go with Mughals. If Persia is edited but Lotus dosen't show- then I'll go with Mughals.
Johan said:
Seconded. Venice is far from dead. Yes, he lost 3 provinces in the last war - but he still have more provinces than he started with.
Mulliman said:Im sorry to intervene in this discussion, but those requests are just outright mad
I must agree. I see no reason to throw all sorts of crazy edits at an otherwise dead nation for no other reason than BTG wanting to go out with a blow...
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How could Persia manage to get all governors, when there are plenty of European majors without it.
Johan said:
I have spent almost all my income for about a decade now, promoting to govenors... so yeah, I too would find that odd and undeserved. And the free choice of sliders? Woah... don't even get me started on that!