Peter Ebbesen said:but do not try the mantle of righteousness or fairness here, they do not fit.
Are you implying the Emperor is naked?
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Are you implying the Emperor is naked?
Spain and Venice would "only" have outnumbered me 2:1 rather than 3:1 in the initial attack phase and you would still have had the same manpower and income advantage, not to mention the considerable advantage of the surprise attack: I had literally no knowledge of your impending attack, nor did I know that relations had soured to that point with the Habsburgs as there was no correspondence leading up to the war. (A failure on my part; I expected at least a "Have at you, vile Frog, we demand <insert unreasonable demand>" as a precursor to war - it would have been so much more interesting)Slargos said:
The outcome even without French troops in Benin, even with warning, would have been the same.
What would truly make a difference would be L2 fortresses in all French provinces, but at 289d apiece and about 50d cash if minting that is not currently an option.
Not likely if you keep your current alliance, Boyo. You have a tech, manpower, and income advantage that is truly scary, and it gets better with every decade as all of you franctically press "land" when doing dp-clicks.I suspect next one will be on the habsburgs.
Not only that, you have deftly set it up such that if a Grand Coalition arises to check your alliance, Venice, which is the one that has benefited in a major way from your aggression, will be the main target.
...I still cannot really decide with myself whether BTG's extremely aggressive Venice, which has gotten such great gains due to its alliance, is a success story or the best example of creating long-term enemies by shortsightedness. I guess time will tell.
...It takes an awful lot for a nation other than SPA or HAB to end up as French enemy #1, but Venice has managed it, impressively enough, and will stay there until Lombardia is returned.
No, it is much more likely you will retain the whipping hand until the Netherlands are released, which will cut down your manpower by a bit.
Peter Ebbesen said:
I felt a bit sour about that war from get-go. We had a pretty sizeable advantage and we didn't perform much in the way of diplomacy (although your encroaching on the caribbean gave me an excellent motivation to thoroughly kick your ass..
). I don't really like those kinds of wars. And unfortunately I was too stressed/busy with the task of juggling colonization (now I understand why spain and portugal always want to run on below normal first session. ) that I didn't give diplomacy as much attention as I should've. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Oh. Another 15 years? Muh gosh that's a long time.
You'r evil bastard, OE's galley fleet was slow like a turtle, and you'r war ships is faster then the wind. Though, the mighty turk fleet won the only major sea battleSlargos said:I wouldn't have been able to siege constantinopel if freddy hadn't pissed away his troops in hungary and failed to stop my navy in the bosphorous. First time he sallied his galley navy and inflicted some casualties on my warships forcing me to flee back to crete, but then he pursued and I managed to just sail around crete and trick him..
I suspect next one will be on the habsburgs.
Regarding the battles in Hungary, i fought on three fronts in that war Slargos, Venice via Greece, Spain/Austria in Hungary and against Venice in Croatia.
Besides you'r sneak attack on Constantinopel is typical Spanish cowardice, though the Troops at the Persian border would have crushed them if the war would have continued. Besides i did some stupid moves in hungary, i had splited up my cavalry armie (around 50K) into two armies, witch one of them were slaughted by the evil Austrians. If i wouldn't have screwed up at start, Austria would have been a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire.
And the dumb Venetian forces annoyed me into death, there looting raides were crushed of course, but ment that i had to split my armie in Hungary!
3:1Slargos said:
Burning Paris because of a L1 colony in the Caribbean that you could have taken any time via TOT? Boy, do you have strange motivations.... Especially when your stated war goal was to give LOMBARDIA to VENICE. :rofl:and we didn't perform much in the way of diplomacy (although your encroaching on the caribbean gave me an excellent motivation to thoroughly kick your ass..
On a more general note, Portugal and Spain should never expect to gain every province in the TOT. If they do manage to, it is an abject failure for just about all other western powers.
Right. The exploration of random goods is done.
Guess who got a goldmine in their worthless canadian colony? :rofl:
Unfortunately, a teensy bug has crept into the goods-reader, so it's currently worth only 1d in production..
Spain gained another goldmine in St:Thomas, but since we already have gold inflation, it's not exactly improving my situation.
Guess who got a goldmine in their worthless canadian colony? :rofl:
Unfortunately, a teensy bug has crept into the goods-reader, so it's currently worth only 1d in production..
Spain gained another goldmine in St:Thomas, but since we already have gold inflation, it's not exactly improving my situation.
Slargos said:Unfortunately, a teensy bug has crept into the goods-reader, so it's currently worth only 1d in production..
Iam sure you only read wrong its not goldmine but crumbmine and it correctly produces 1d income Spain should recreuit better analyzers
.
Your main mistake was falling for my lure at the start which took your 70k army inside Austria where a combination of attrition followed by my catching of your remaining forces after your failed assault caused you heavy losses. I loved watching your 3k scout army cross the border to try and peek at what I had behind the front line - of course my main army was another province further back and only started moving when your proper invasion force finally crossed the border. Admittedly you had little option, and after the hordes your threw at me in the first war I fully expected to be in big big trouble whilst Spain and Venice were fighting France. That initial gambit though bought me the breathing space I needed for Spain and Venice to bring France to the peace table and after that you never really recovered.Fredrik_SWE said:Besides i did some stupid moves in hungary, i had splited up my cavalry armie (around 50K) into two armies, witch one of them were slaughted by the evil Austrians. If i wouldn't have screwed up at start, Austria would have been a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire.
By the way...
The King of France Officially Thanks Sweden
For its gracious contribution to the French self defense against aggression
The 48d were very useful
And considering the poverty of Sweden, an exceptional gift indeed
For its gracious contribution to the French self defense against aggression
The 48d were very useful
And considering the poverty of Sweden, an exceptional gift indeed
Summary of Persia 1520-1540 (?)
I've subbed Persia for the first half of the session. Unfortunatly I had to leave at around 21:30 cet which left Persia AI.
Peter is right, I kept asking him for advice as I didn't want to screw up Persia in the first session because I've never played them before.
I strongly disagree with Fredrik though that Persia shouldn't be much of a problem for the OE.
The OE attacked me right from the start with CRT advantage and at least outnumbering Persian troops 2:1. I didn't stand a chance and so I signed peace for Armenia, Kurdistan and Iraq when he moved some 60k towards Tabriz while I was literally withour a single man.
After that war I was hoping to get those provinces back and I had planned to DoW the OE during the Hungarian campaigns. Unfortunatly the truce lasted until April 1527.
The Habsburg, despite my continous bragging and begging, had signed peace with OE 2 months before so I put my war preperations on hold.
I am pretty sure that I could have gotten the provinces back later that session (for example in the second Austrian/Ottoman war) seeing how Fredrik only kept a small force on the eastern front during those wars.
Anyway...
I rushed to reach LT 9 and later 10 and invested heavily into trade tech. I'm unsure wether infra would have been the better choice but having in mind Peters enormous benefits from trading licenses in the last game, I figured I needed to reach Trade 4 asap so I could embargoe nations.
I also tried to convert as many provinces as possible and when I left I had converted one of the eastern provinces and ongoing missionaires in the other non-state-religion-provinces.
Balutchistan was brought into an allience and diplovassalized and also Oman was invited into the Shia allience.
Persia granted Portugal trading rights in Isfahan until 1600 in exchange for Bahrain (which needs to be colonized - perhaps not a smart move?)
Venice also gained trading rights in Isfahan until 1570 in exchange for 600 ducats which have been payed already.
When the OE hit -3 stab, I figured it would be a good time to expand eastwards. (It took me half the session to discover the Mughal capital so when I finally got knowledge of it,I dowed)
Persia took 3 core provinces from the Mughals, 2 with state culture which need to be converted to the true faith.
Persia was also one of the first nations that built a fine arts academy.
So when I had to leave, I was at +3 stab, below 1% inflation and about ready to diploannex Balutchistan.
I have no idea what the AI did or did not do to Persia but I hope this helps a bit to understand what was going on east of Euphrat and Tigris
Oh and I enjoyed the session.
I've subbed Persia for the first half of the session. Unfortunatly I had to leave at around 21:30 cet which left Persia AI.
Peter is right, I kept asking him for advice as I didn't want to screw up Persia in the first session because I've never played them before.
I strongly disagree with Fredrik though that Persia shouldn't be much of a problem for the OE.
The OE attacked me right from the start with CRT advantage and at least outnumbering Persian troops 2:1. I didn't stand a chance and so I signed peace for Armenia, Kurdistan and Iraq when he moved some 60k towards Tabriz while I was literally withour a single man.
After that war I was hoping to get those provinces back and I had planned to DoW the OE during the Hungarian campaigns. Unfortunatly the truce lasted until April 1527.
The Habsburg, despite my continous bragging and begging, had signed peace with OE 2 months before so I put my war preperations on hold.
I am pretty sure that I could have gotten the provinces back later that session (for example in the second Austrian/Ottoman war) seeing how Fredrik only kept a small force on the eastern front during those wars.
Anyway...
I rushed to reach LT 9 and later 10 and invested heavily into trade tech. I'm unsure wether infra would have been the better choice but having in mind Peters enormous benefits from trading licenses in the last game, I figured I needed to reach Trade 4 asap so I could embargoe nations.
I also tried to convert as many provinces as possible and when I left I had converted one of the eastern provinces and ongoing missionaires in the other non-state-religion-provinces.
Balutchistan was brought into an allience and diplovassalized and also Oman was invited into the Shia allience.
Persia granted Portugal trading rights in Isfahan until 1600 in exchange for Bahrain (which needs to be colonized - perhaps not a smart move?)
Venice also gained trading rights in Isfahan until 1570 in exchange for 600 ducats which have been payed already.
When the OE hit -3 stab, I figured it would be a good time to expand eastwards. (It took me half the session to discover the Mughal capital so when I finally got knowledge of it,I dowed)
Persia took 3 core provinces from the Mughals, 2 with state culture which need to be converted to the true faith.
Persia was also one of the first nations that built a fine arts academy.
So when I had to leave, I was at +3 stab, below 1% inflation and about ready to diploannex Balutchistan.
I have no idea what the AI did or did not do to Persia but I hope this helps a bit to understand what was going on east of Euphrat and Tigris
Oh and I enjoyed the session.
Not really. The trading license game is a dangerous one to play so long as you are weak enough that a European expeditionary force can ruin your day. I would suggest that Persia stay away from heavy licenses it is significantly stronger.Lord Ganja said:
Good for you. Bahrein is a very nice province once colonised - well, it usually is. With randomization, who knows. Even so, having complete home waters dominance in the most important sea province in the Persian gulf is not a bad deal.
Nice - and very kind of Venice at this point in the game. (Probably Spanish gold
)
Peter Ebbesen said:
Indeed. It was unfortunate that Poland decided to DOW when I was afk and took 3 provinces when I was back. And in the middle of the war for Donetsk and Poltava war, Astrakhan decided to DOW. So, I ceded the 2 provinces to Poland and decided to focus in the evil Astrakhan alliance.
Apart of the unfortunate polish incident, a pretty fun session for Russia. The ex-territories of Astrakhan and Khazan are part of Russia now, and since the armies of Sibir and Nogai are absolutely defeated, the road to Siberia will soon be part of Russia.
In internal matters, Russia is more centralized that before, we build a refinery in Nizhgorod (the current center of vodka production) and Khazan decided to convert by his own will after we spend a missionary in them
BTW, the Tzar could like to talk with the Sultan regarding the situation of Georgia -his current ally. A country that is currently oppresing some orthodox and that rules some lands that are clearly meant to be part of Russia.
Peter Ebbesen said:
After looking at the savefile I noticed that dumb AI hasnt even completed Trade 4 which was expcted in 1545... I know it's a risky game but knowing that most players don't have the balls nor the material to launch a succesful campaign against Persia at this point (except with OE asistance) I figured it was worth it.
Good for you. Bahrein is a very nice province once colonised - well, it usually is. With randomization, who knows. Even so, having complete home waters dominance in the most important sea province in the Persian gulf is not a bad deal.
Unfortunatly Persia recieves -0,80 settlers a year, a number which will even decrease with DP settings moving towards Inno/Land
Nice - and very kind of Venice at this point in the game. (Probably Spanish gold
I told Venice that I'd reach Trade 4 before 1550 and that I would embargoe him if he didn't buy a license.
Unfortunatly only Portugal and Venice out of the euro nations bothered to trade in Isfahan until I had to leave.
Slargos said:Right. The exploration of random goods is done.
Guess who got a goldmine in their worthless canadian colony? :rofl:
Unfortunately, a teensy bug has crept into the goods-reader, so it's currently worth only 1d in production..
Spain gained another goldmine in St:Thomas, but since we already have gold inflation, it's not exactly improving my situation.
If it bothers you so much to have all that gold, feel free to give it to your catholic friend in Brandenburg.
arcorelli said:
Iam sure the near annihilation of all Russian armies at the end had something to do it with allso growing polish WS
.It was realy nice war that was fought on realy small area to decide its destiny hope Tzar remembers grasious gifts to pay some damage caused by unfortuned messanger who was lost in some cheap tavern before giving declaration of war to Tzar to unite the last ruthenian minorities with polish cousins.
Rezag said:Iam sure the near annihilation of all Russian armies at the end had something to do it with allso growing polish WS
Russian armies are dirt cheap (4 ducats infantry) and manpower is not low. Armies can be annihilated several times without problem for the continuation of the war
But when Astrakhan DOWed, the tzar thought that taking several astrakhan provinces and being one province to get a new COT was better than continuing the war with the evil polish.
And we certainly could prefer in the future russo-polish relations that the polish king hire better messengers
I wonder if you managed to see this post of mine, right prior to the forum shutdown, in this very thread!...
Rezag, I must thank you a lot for subbing me. Gotta talk to you later.
I saw that the game might have been a great fun for all. Well, games are to make people have fun, right?
I haven't downloaded the savefile to take a better sight of the situation. Yes, I saw the stats, but it's not enough. I'll download the savefile tomorrow or wednesday, as I'm too busy now...
Anibal said:
Rezag, I must thank you a lot for subbing me.
Gotta talk to you later.I saw that the game might have been a great fun for all. Well, games are to make people have fun, right?
I haven't downloaded the savefile to take a better sight of the situation. Yes, I saw the stats, but it's not enough. I'll download the savefile tomorrow or wednesday, as I'm too busy now...
Anibal said:
I didn't, but I believe someone did.
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On an entirely different note:
I'm going to attempt to keep wars local and scaled as much as possible. I'm not saying this is the way it's going to be all the time as it's not a promise I can make, but it will be my ambition.
For example:
Ottoman Empire asserts its strength in Algeria -> Spain won't intervene on land. Possibly the spanish fleet will support the venetians if the ottomans venture too far west with their fleets.
Ottoman Empire is victorious in Algeria and starts casting wistful glances at Dalmatia since Venice is down and low -> Spanish intervention is probable.
Ottoman Empire moves on Venezia -> Spanish intervention is all but guaranteed.
Nice you use the Ottoman Empire and Venice as an example Slargos, what makes you think the Ottoman Empire could possible have an eye on Venetian possessions?