I'm going to add to this small debate about the importance of navies. In Red Phoenix's Diplomacy Univeralis before it ended due to lack of player's. The later stages of the game, late 1600's to 1700's I played Portugal for 3 sessions. In the last 2 session's heavy war's on the continent broke out with a few small skirmishes in the colonies.
The last session was no exception with a very large gangbang on France, Spain, and Portugal being conducted. During this conflict, as I said I was playing Port and for most of that war I was fighting England in the sea's. England was played by Archduke. We both started the war with about 200 warship's each. During the first part of the engagement we both lost probably 200 warship's each with both Duke and I rebuilding our fleet's and sending our fleet's out to hunt for eachother's fleet's down. Duke was able to break my fleet up in the first few battle's but I recovered and rebuilt my fleet and forced another battle around the Iberian peninsula and returned the favour.
The thing is, even though Duke hammered my fleet and I lost well over half my fleet in the first phase, I had 3 shipyard's in the Iberian peninsula churning out warship's to replace my losses. I quickly rebuilt in a few month's and counter attacked preventing Duke from landing on the Iberian peninsula. It's quite easy to say that if you lose your fleet, then your out of the engagement if your England or Port. But it wasn't the case. Both Duke and I were able to recover our staggering losses and continue to press eachother for dominance of the sea. Neither of us had a clear cut advantage over eachother, with both side's continuing to rebuild warship's as quickly as we could mint.
Even though Duke did win a tactical victory in the sea's by destroying more Portugese ship's then I destroyed English ship's. I did prevent him from landing Marlborough on the Iberian peninsula. However the story does go on. An event for Portugal fired during the war and I didn't read it thoroughly enough. It was the option where Portugal can become a vassal to England and in return gain 3 refineries and a good's manufactory. I took the event after I saw all the free manufactories little realizing I would be vassalized to my chagrin. I was forced to make peace with England which I did and I pulled out of the war.
I was intending to stay out of the war until Duke decided he wanted a piece of the Iberian peninsula which for me was dangerous since Portugal at that time had large swath's of territory of Spain's under her dominion. By this time, England had already peaced out with a French CoT in NA and land's from France. I decided to re-enter the war and support Spain against England again.
The few year's of peace, I quickly rebuilt my fleet back up to about 200 warship's, then DoWed England and quickly moved my armies into Spain which was being overrunned by Marlborough. We fought in Andulusia and my larger army defeated Marlborough and forced him to retreat. Duke's fleet which was ferrying more troop's to Marlborough I intercepted and fought him off Lisbon and destroyed nearly half his fleet. I pursued his fleet north, and gave his fleet another defeat but this time combined with his Admiral, I suffer more losses. In total I lost over 100 warship's in these 2 naval engagement's alone. But I didn't stop building warship's, during all this I had another 30+ warship's rebuilt and linked it with my main fleet and with the Spanish fleet which for the most part stayed out of the naval engagment's England and I were conducting. were relatively in good shape. Spain had about 120 warship's with my 100 and we moved north to intercept the English fleet and prevent Marlborough from escaping and being rescued from the Iberian peninsula. Sadly this is where the campaign ended. With so many regular player's not able to continue, alot of the playerbase felt it was best to not continue the game.
But you can see, playing a dedicated naval power like I did, knowing your strength's and using it to benifit your allies will do you well in the long run. Both Duke and I lost EACH 300 to 400 warship's in those 2 war's and that was in one session. Admittedly I am sure there are war stories out there where player's have fought even huger fleet's and lost way more warship's. But the point to all this was this was England and Portugal fighting a naval war and with their normal naval support limit. 200 warship's was about max that each side could field against eachother in peacetime, but we were constantly replacing our losses in the sea's and hammering into eachother repeatedly with our fleet's. Lossing 300-400 warship's for England and Port respectively is well unheard of usually.
Duma
The last session was no exception with a very large gangbang on France, Spain, and Portugal being conducted. During this conflict, as I said I was playing Port and for most of that war I was fighting England in the sea's. England was played by Archduke. We both started the war with about 200 warship's each. During the first part of the engagement we both lost probably 200 warship's each with both Duke and I rebuilding our fleet's and sending our fleet's out to hunt for eachother's fleet's down. Duke was able to break my fleet up in the first few battle's but I recovered and rebuilt my fleet and forced another battle around the Iberian peninsula and returned the favour.
The thing is, even though Duke hammered my fleet and I lost well over half my fleet in the first phase, I had 3 shipyard's in the Iberian peninsula churning out warship's to replace my losses. I quickly rebuilt in a few month's and counter attacked preventing Duke from landing on the Iberian peninsula. It's quite easy to say that if you lose your fleet, then your out of the engagement if your England or Port. But it wasn't the case. Both Duke and I were able to recover our staggering losses and continue to press eachother for dominance of the sea. Neither of us had a clear cut advantage over eachother, with both side's continuing to rebuild warship's as quickly as we could mint.
Even though Duke did win a tactical victory in the sea's by destroying more Portugese ship's then I destroyed English ship's. I did prevent him from landing Marlborough on the Iberian peninsula. However the story does go on. An event for Portugal fired during the war and I didn't read it thoroughly enough. It was the option where Portugal can become a vassal to England and in return gain 3 refineries and a good's manufactory. I took the event after I saw all the free manufactories little realizing I would be vassalized to my chagrin. I was forced to make peace with England which I did and I pulled out of the war.
I was intending to stay out of the war until Duke decided he wanted a piece of the Iberian peninsula which for me was dangerous since Portugal at that time had large swath's of territory of Spain's under her dominion. By this time, England had already peaced out with a French CoT in NA and land's from France. I decided to re-enter the war and support Spain against England again.
The few year's of peace, I quickly rebuilt my fleet back up to about 200 warship's, then DoWed England and quickly moved my armies into Spain which was being overrunned by Marlborough. We fought in Andulusia and my larger army defeated Marlborough and forced him to retreat. Duke's fleet which was ferrying more troop's to Marlborough I intercepted and fought him off Lisbon and destroyed nearly half his fleet. I pursued his fleet north, and gave his fleet another defeat but this time combined with his Admiral, I suffer more losses. In total I lost over 100 warship's in these 2 naval engagement's alone. But I didn't stop building warship's, during all this I had another 30+ warship's rebuilt and linked it with my main fleet and with the Spanish fleet which for the most part stayed out of the naval engagment's England and I were conducting. were relatively in good shape. Spain had about 120 warship's with my 100 and we moved north to intercept the English fleet and prevent Marlborough from escaping and being rescued from the Iberian peninsula. Sadly this is where the campaign ended. With so many regular player's not able to continue, alot of the playerbase felt it was best to not continue the game.
But you can see, playing a dedicated naval power like I did, knowing your strength's and using it to benifit your allies will do you well in the long run. Both Duke and I lost EACH 300 to 400 warship's in those 2 war's and that was in one session. Admittedly I am sure there are war stories out there where player's have fought even huger fleet's and lost way more warship's. But the point to all this was this was England and Portugal fighting a naval war and with their normal naval support limit. 200 warship's was about max that each side could field against eachother in peacetime, but we were constantly replacing our losses in the sea's and hammering into eachother repeatedly with our fleet's. Lossing 300-400 warship's for England and Port respectively is well unheard of usually.
Duma
