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arcorelli

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FAL said:
I've learned Russian in the Eleventh Hour and thus was able to create the stats ;)

Look Here

In fact, Tonio helped me with them. Thank you very much Tonio!

Interesting stats btw :)

BTW, the 'Vile Slargos' title was an austrian suggestion? :rofl:

And if the venetian income is quite large, the OE is not that high (it looks high because *spanish* income is rather low).
 

Rezag

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Now it seems Sweden continues its war mongering ways and obviously unable to learn nothing from past.

The declaration of war Sweden made to Russian can only be answered with sadness there will never be peace in north thanks to madness ruling in Sweden even offer to change Finland&Tavastland to Kola&Kareli faced only mad laughter from Sweden "We want it all for free we wont never give up anything for no matter what the price never hahahahahah"

For this Russia cant but broken heartly accept this swedish eternal war declaration we only hope Poland finally sees the madness of Sweden and would not let it grow until it even consumes Poland in its mad flames of wars.

And so people of Russia will once again just be waiting Sweden to dow them and with maybe their ally Poland now change in the world politics what a fewer dream :(.

Now I just cant accept Sweden inflation to be fixed it was swedish greed that cauced it and obviously that greed is now even more bigger than it was knowing even ruining Sweden wont cause any problems for Swedens expansion :mad:.

And can Russia be compensated for the overtime Time of Trouble events +14RR has caused for it as it should have ended (started 1603)1609 and its now allready 1611 as it realy hurts like hell for Russian income. Iam asking this because Austria has been compensated for having ghoust armies and have to say they are pleasant compared ever lasting time of trouble ;).
 

arcorelli

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Regarding Sweden, IMHO if HG continues to play I think it should not be edited (he should live with the decisions of the subs). If HG will not play them, then edits can be discussed (and only if edits are done to Russia also)
 
Jul 24, 2003
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arcorelli said:
Regarding Sweden, IMHO if HG continues to play I think it should not be edited (he should live with the decisions of the subs). If HG will not play them, then edits can be discussed (and only if edits are done to Russia also)

Agreed. Even if someone else plays them, the inflation should stay as it is.
Don't touch countries run by players other then to repair bugs
 
Jul 24, 2003
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Economy Facts and Figures

The figures for the year 1611

chart1611_1.jpg


chart1611_2.jpg

Notes:
  • Many, many thanks to Barnius for teaching me how to create the charts
  • Ottoman is the richest, but VENICE is a monster! FACE IT: The richest and the about second richest nation in the world are allied...
  • Please look at the Venetian trade income..and at their research income!
  • Spain is lagging behind in many aspects...they hardly trade!
  • Austria is piss poor :( :(
 
Last edited:

unmerged(10146)

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Slargos said:
Good job on the graphs, FAL. Yet another game succumbs to the TMI-plague. :D

Damn you, Barnius! Daaaamn YOOOOOU! :D

My compliments to FAL, he did it really nice and fast.
But all I helped him with is stats, scouts honour, all the propaganda :D below is completely his own work :rofl: 100% :rofl: Great job!
 
Jul 24, 2003
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It's even more awful one can imagine: of the nations who could prosper a WHOLE session Austria is by far the poorest. They hardly surpass other countries who were wrecked by wars for years :/

Then again: Austria has the Ottoman Empire and Venice as it's hostile neighbours who pack 300+ MP, better tech and together more then FIVE times as much income :/
 

unmerged(10146)

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:confused: Where is all that Venetian money comming from? Does she control a signifficant ammount of trade (i.e. more than two COTs)?

When will you all embargo her? And OE naturally :D Although togeather they probably control a good part of trade :(
 

Slargos

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Barnius said:
:confused: Where is all that Venetian money comming from? Does she control a signifficant ammount of trade (i.e. more than two COTs)?

When will you all embargo her? And OE naturally :D Although togeather they probably control a good part of trade :(

Venice only holds one CoT of her own so far. Most of the trade is from ottoman, persian and far east CoTs.
 

Peter Ebbesen

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FAL said:
Hmm Persia doesnt look that bad.
You are kidding, right?

The AI management of Persia is, as expected, a frigging disaster. Not "slightly bad", not "quite decent, actually", but a disaster.

It is only "not bad" in comparison to what could, conceivably, have happened in the realm of all possible outcomes, i.e. total national dissolution. Conservatively, it has set back Persia's economic development by approximately 40 years and ruined Persia's one chance at striking a really hard blow against the OE.

In 28 years, the AI has managed to....
  • BB: Increase BB from 13 to 17 despite losing about 11 BB from the passage of time; 1 BB per completely indefensible African diploannexed colony and TP that Oman owned sure adds up. Diploannexing Oman is a strategic error of the first magnitude that no competent player would do at this time. Attacks on the OE help, but it is Oman that is the culprit. Well, at least it increased the techcosts through more provinces.
  • Tech: Increase tech from 14/5/3/3 to 17/6/4/3, setting back infra 5 by at least another 28 years or so, without considering ANY other factors. Fortunately it only invested 5% of the budget in naval tech, so there is some consolation.
  • DP settings: A total change of +1 CEN, -2 INN, which is not impressive considering that a +2 scripted CEN event arrived during the period. High INN is essential if Persia is to remain a viable nation and not just an Ottoman patsy, and Persia should never, ever, choose to reduce innovativeness in random events. The AI did it twice, setting back tech by years. EDIT: It is even worse when you consider that the INN reducing random event, uncooperative philosopher, allows you to INCREASE innovation by taking the alternative choice. Persia could have been at INN=7 now without using any dp-clicks!
  • Trade: Maintaining 1 merchant in Isfahan only is NOT the way to earn real money from trade
  • Monthly income: 1583: 70d 1611: 79d.
  • Conversions: When you have an 8/9/9 monarch for a brief period of time before the reign of the dummies for the remainder of the game, it really is time to convert the last few provinces rather than leaving the missionaries idle.
  • Army: Fielding an 100% maintenance army far in excess of the support level in peacetime is NOT economically viable. It is paying 34d out of a monthly income of 79d in peacetime maintenance, for chrissakes! It is bleeding ducats by the thousands over the years with such a strategy.
  • Leaders: Abbas I (1587-1629) 4/4/4/1 and Allahverdi Khan (1597-1613) 4/4/4/1 lost sometime before 1611 to no gain whatsoever. 1600-1630 Persia gets its best crop of leaders, EVER, and the AI has pissed the best of them away, no doubt in some stupid suicide attack on the OE. Only the mediocre leaders remain.
The one good spot is that the AI has, apparently, received some exceptional years reducing inflation. That is certainly nice, but it does not change the fact that the situation as a whole is a frigging disaster from a Persia/OE BoP question. Earlist possible date for infra 4 is 1630, and infra 5 around 1660 if ALL income from now on goes to infrastructure? Jesus wept. Innovation, now 3, should have been at least 5 (no drops from random events) or more properly 7 (2 out of 3 dp-clicks used to improve it)

A non-Oman annexing Persia that had lost all the western provinces to the OE, which had NOT reduced innovation, which had invested in economic techs, which had performed the needed conversions, and which had force-converted and vassalised the Mughal Empire, as ANY human player would have done, given the 1583 starting position, would have been immensely better off and ready to face the OE at 3 to 2 odds rather than 2 to 1, and ANY player could have achieved this, most players could have achieved better.

...

Ah, sorry for the ranting. That is what I get for being absent, I guess. It is just that presenting the situation as "not bad" shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of the current Persian position. Considering the exceptionally rapacious expansion of the OE in Africa, Persia's prospects took a severe beating from the AI's mismanagement.

Oman!? 11-12 BB to annex, all but 3 provinces completely worthless and indefensible.


EDIT: I am not saying that no other nation is worse off - Denmark and Sweden certainly come to mind - but for Persia, there is really only one yardstick that really matters, namely how far it lags behind the OE, and by now it lags very, very, very badly.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2003
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Peter Ebbesen said:
<snippie>
Ah, sorry for the ranting. That is what I get for being absent, I guess. It is just that presenting the situation as "not bad" shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of the current Persian position. Considering the exceptionally rapacious expansion of the OE in Africa, Persia's prospects took a severe beating from the AI's mismanagement.

Well. I can understand the rant. I would be about equally pissed when a nation as Persia, in an extremely difficult position, was run by the AI.

However, I think you misunderstood my point or I did not expressed myself clearly enough. What I meant to say was that AI Persia did less bad then an AI Persia could have done. In other words: AI Persia performed average or even above average versus other AI Persia's ;)
Afterall, the inflation and land tech isn't THAT bad.

You, however, flawlessy proved that Persia run by a human player, and surely a skilled one, would have performed much, much better then AI Persia.
Well, don't worry. I, for one, would never doubt Persia would have been better off with you steering it ;)

But indeed. It sucks that Persia was AI. It really, truly does. I am saying this, totally unbiased as Austria :D

I find it a bit, just a bit, dissapointing that there was no plan B. sub available, coming to know that you AND the GM knew a sub was needed, from the start of the game...
 

Peter Ebbesen

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FAL said:
Well. I can understand the rant. I would be about equally pissed when a nation as Persia, in an extremely difficult position, was run by the AI.
No, no, I am not pissed that Persia was AI run, that was always an option, only with the consequences. When several players are absent, a GM will have to do what he can to run the session with those hands present, and Persia is on the fringes of the action, far away from the European hotspots.

As, additionally, I had done zero work in acquiring a substitute, I certainly have no right to complain because Persia was AI run. I can still bemoan the effects, though.