Europe Ablaze MP vanilla 1.03b AAR

[Eber]

ok, then consider spains moves as a gift of sacrifice to the rest of the world however, w/o spain maybe the anti russian alliance wont win?

Sacrifice to who though? Spain? Because that is what it probably will turn out to be. All Spain is doing is helping Austria and Prussia instead of Russia. I see no gains by helping Austria and Prussia.

As I said, I seriously doubt Spain will play a considerable role in the war. It is just too long of a distance for Spain to be a big impact and a threat for Russia.

I suppose we just have to wait and see.

 

[Lotus Lo]

ok.... well, at first we weren't too sure as to what france would do... we actually assumed they would join in with russia, so spain was to invade so. france. but france chickened out and stayed neutral.

now, i do believe this will be a long war. that being said with the navy of the us/uk at our disposal, im sure that spains half a million troops , w/ the aid of sea transport, could be involved in this war w/in 6 months.

and yes, from a purely self interest viewpoint, spain gains really nothing, except the good will of pru/aus/usa/oe/uk

edit: and helping aus/pru will help spa against fra im sure

 

[Eber]

Yes, Spain will have the goodwill of most the world than, but as you said yourself Spain sure won't come out on top because of this.

But oh well, it just thickens the plot.

 

[november]

Based on this thread I don’t think Raph’s action can be criticized. It may turn out to be a mistake on the field, but who knows? If he can be criticized, it’s for going along with Russia in the first place. But this is after the fact.

And I think Memnon can be criticized for poor diplomacy. I may be Captain Obvious here, but he misjudged an ally who not only turned against him, but formed a combination against him. He can beat his chest all he wants, but it was a strategic blunder—and perhaps a fatal one.

The best course for Raph was neutrality in the hope that the alliance would bring Memnon down several notches (but not destroy him), but that no alliance member became over-mighty doing it. He could probably enter an alliance with anyone in that eventuality, including Memnon.

 

[Lotus Lo]

And I think Memnon can be criticized for poor diplomacy.

i think 'poor' should maybe be replaced with 'too good' it was his diplo skill that got him in the super power position.

 

[unmerged(27373)]

If I may say something, as a humble secretary for this game...

Don't judge a player purely based on his posts. It's best if you actually play this game, log into irc, and be exposed to all the intrigues of this game. Forum is for public propaganda, or public information if you prefer, sometimes, things are revealed in IRC. 98%+ of diplomacy in this game are conducted via IRC as far as I know. I hope people realize each side has their story to tell, it all depends on how they present it. A victim can become a bully if protrayed in a different light. A bully can become a victim if protrayed correctly. Germany accused Poland in border incursion and all and launched their invasion of Poland. Germany was simply trying to defend itself, I remember Germany even published photo of dead bodies dressed in polish uniform in some German border town.

I love audience participation. It certainly add more perspective to this game. It is interesting to see what people thought when all their information is from posts in this forum

Will Russia prevail and the Czar has his revenge?

Will the allies prevail, neutralize Russian threat and hold their alliance?

Will the French and Swedes maintain their neutrality or join one side?

Stay tuned

 

[unmerged(17581)]

I demand screenshots!

 

[Lotus Lo]

war just started, not even 2 months old...several pages back shows the diplo screen, showing all in the war save usa

 

[unmerged(27373)]

I demand screenshots!

I may be open to bribes

 

[unmerged(17581)]

I have one comment, and one comment only:

Every one of the traitors shall die. Thay have made enemies of me, and for the rest of this game, my one goal will be the distruction, elimination, and subordination of the countries that did this to me.

Those who were wise enough to remain neutral shall recieve the fruits of Russian victory, but to all those involved in the war, I will not rest, I will not quit, I will not submit nor surrender nor succumb until each and every last one of you is neck deep in the blood of your people. Millions of Russian soldiers shall wear you down until you are no more. You may win this war, but it will cost you dearly, and the wars yet to come will cost you your countries, your fortunes, and your honor. This vendetta lasts as long as the game.

I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Memnon, I believe you are channeling Ebbesen!

 

[unmerged(4031)]

Just to note.. I'm re-taking over France after my 2 week absence. Many thanks to Tom for subbing.

As for the war, France is neutral and France will remain neutral.

 

[Rosey Palmer]

Goodness, looks like everyone has a different point of view on the whole state of affairs here. Interesting to hear why Spain made the decision to leave the alliance.

I think Spain did ok jumping in on Russia. If Prussia has truly been a faithful ally, as has been suggested, then I'd want to jump on board with her. Spain is too weak to go it alone for very long and I'd want powerful allies. Since Spain left Russia's side it was time to find someone else to partner up with.

And most importantly, as many have pointed out, this is an example of a situation which requires the sacrifice of many nations for perhaps very little real gain. Many German, Austrian, American, and Spanish men will be sacrificed with most nations really having nothing to gain except protection from an all powerful Russia (and they may have already acted too late).

That's my take. Can't wait for updates!

 

[unmerged(27373)]

Goodness, looks like everyone has a different point of view on the whole state of affairs here. Interesting to hear why Spain made the decision to leave the alliance.

I think Spain did ok jumping in on Russia. If Prussia has truly been a faithful ally, as has been suggested, then I'd want to jump on board with her. Spain is too weak to go it alone for very long and I'd want powerful allies. Since Spain left Russia's side it was time to find someone else to partner up with.

And most importantly, as many have pointed out, this is an example of a situation which requires the sacrifice of many nations for perhaps very little real gain. Many German, Austrian, American, and Spanish men will be sacrificed with most nations really having nothing to gain except protection from an all powerful Russia (and they may have already acted too late).

That's my take. Can't wait for updates!

Instead of dealing with fairly predictable AI, you're dealing with humans. Peace treaties, what peace treaties? Alliances? Badboy, what is that?

There are a lot more being said in IRC, but it's up to the players to decide what to reveal. I don't want to rub players the fun of propaganda...err, sorry, public information and relationship opportunity

 

[unmerged(31118)]

Memnon's Wrath

An anecdote from personal experience:

As some of you may know, Memnon and I are friends of longstanding. And at one time long ago, we played Imperialism MP against each other. I had some victories, he had some victories. But there was one time when he was Austria and I was France.

We were at war with Prussia; it is nebulous as to how but Memnon thought I had agreed to split Prussia (I probably had). I got greedy and took more to get access to Russia, who we were also allied to. Memnon cooled; soon he made peace. I pressed on with dreams of acquiring highly valuable Russian provs. Memnon was still cold. And then...Austria declared war, advanced to Paris and I was dead.

So, the lesson is: Memnon will deliver on his promises. He will be nice and cordial about it, but he will deliver.

 

[unmerged(21796)]

Fear memnon, Fear russia, why? why you ask? its because even if he loses, the DAY that peace is declared he can demobelize and re mobelize for a instant round 2 with 300+ reserves... Great Patiotic War eh memnon?


anyway, feel that memnons overall proformace during this game can be described by this quote

When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing more to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader.
^ i'd like to thank Plato for that one

 

[Darkrenown]

I agree that it was wise to dishonor the alliance, but it certainly wasn't wise to declare war on your former ally. I do not know why becoming neutral would anger everyone. I seriously doubt Prussia and Austria would have invaded when they knew that they knocked an enemy off already without a fight. They would have their hands full.

The best course of action was to become neutral, but ask Memnon for an alliance again. I bet he would understand why you dishonored it and would want to become allies again. But turning your back on your ally then declaring war on him is just poor decision. I wouldn't be able to trust you in a game if you did that.

Good God! Does no one read what I write? One last time:
Spain, Prussia and Russia were allied.
Russia asked Spain to help backstab Prussia like they'd done to France a few years ago. Prussia was a totally loyal ally and would have been happy to ride Russia's Coat into 2nd.
Spain realised that Russia could not be trusted and so contacted Prussia and the USA.

Prussia had to DoW since Russia was planning to attack them anyway. Spain basically organised the whole thing. Austria and OE at least understand the balance of power idea, so they were not happy with uber-Russia. UK wants india back. USA had to DoW both because I have no desire to lose and because Russia has been a real pain in the ass to the USA throughout the game (no offence meeant, I like Mem plenty outside of EA, but USA really hates Russia at this point).

 

[Darkrenown]

I don’t know what I would have done as Spain. Let’s say I honored the alliance. Could Russia have protected me from the combined might of the allies?

I suppose dishonoring the alliance but guaranteeing to not participate in the war (neutrality) would have angered everyone.

Spain planned the war

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Well, I don't think we should overrate neither Memnon nor Russia. I think part of Mem's strategy here is to get us all worked up over his "vengeance wil be mine and I am the destroyer of worlds"-routine. It doesn't work on the Brits

Is he big? Yup. Is he ugly? Definately!* Is he indestructible? Meh.

It'll be an interesting war, and hopefully it'll last beyond the next British election where hopefully Ol' Monkeyboy will become British PM again. I have no doubt that the Allies will succeed as long as they remain true to the cause and eachother.

Rafiki

*

 

[Memnon]

Russia asked Spain to help backstab Prussia like they'd done to France a few years ago.

I will repeat this yet again:

I told Prussia in 1858 that I was not going to support them in a Unification war in 1866 or in 1871. In other words, i have them eight years notice not to try to unify Germany. That, sir, is hardly backstabbing. The fact that Prussia decided to go against my recommendation doe snot surprise me, but while it was certainly a falling out between allies, and perhaps even overly-aggressive on my part, it woud be a lie to call it backstabbing.

 

[Darkrenown]

Sacrifice to who though? Spain? Because that is what it probably will turn out to be. All Spain is doing is helping Austria and Prussia instead of Russia. I see no gains by helping Austria and Prussia.

As I said, I seriously doubt Spain will play a considerable role in the war. It is just too long of a distance for Spain to be a big impact and a threat for Russia.

A) If Russia is not beaten the game is over. Perhaps Spain wants to play more than half a game?

B) Pattern: Russia betrays with ally France. Russia betrays their ally Prussia. Spain is Russia's ally, I wonder who gets betrayed next.