Ok ok ok, can we have a bit of thread etiquette here? Don't tell my enemies what to do!Rosey Palmer said:
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I think it's comical that most are against Memnon in this war. Surely, Russia is the underdog here for she is fighting many great powers.
I think Memnon is truly one of the greatest strategists on this forum and will succeed. As Memnon said before:
Prussia will be destroyed.
Austria will be destroyed.
The Ottoman Empire will be destroyed.
I'll be looking forward to this.
I think Memnon is truly one of the greatest strategists on this forum and will succeed. As Memnon said before:
Prussia will be destroyed.
Austria will be destroyed.
The Ottoman Empire will be destroyed.
I'll be looking forward to this.
Memnon said:Ok ok ok, can we have a bit of thread etiquette here? Don't tell my enemies what to do!
Hehe
How do you know they don't already know? Come on, why do you think I landed south of St. Petersburg already?
I was being briefed on the game when I sub and acted accordingly..
Prussia will be destroyed.Blitzkrieg said:Hehe
How do you know they don't already know? Come on, why do you think I landed south of St. Petersburg already?
Rosey Palmer said:The allies should focus initial assualts in and around St.Petersburg, hoping to grab a couple provinces and hold on against counterattacks in the heart of Memnon's industrial powerhouse. I wouldn't try to take out all of Russia, but rather grab a good foothold and hold on, fighting more of a defensive war and grabbing more territory only very gradually as Memnon's counterattacks near St. Petersburg wore down his troop strength. If you get spread out in Russia your troops will be annihilated! Focusing in this area will also prevent Memnon from massing most of his troops there and wiping Prussia off the map. The key to victory will be massive landings in and around St.Petersburg, slow and steady gains there, and unpredictable landings in other parts of Russia with a few troops gaining footholds in undefended areas.
Memnon should certainly try to buy off a couple of the allies, but like you said I don't think that's a fool-proof method because they can jump right back in. I wouldn't really call it gamey either, just underhanded.
First of all, Russia should not be underestimated
Second, biggest problem for Russia I can see is way too many places to defend. Given the amount of nation and armies arrayed against Russia, Russia cannot afford to defend everywhere. Sure, Russia can defend St. Petersburg area but how about other areas?
Memnon said:
First, if I sub again, how do you know I'll be subbing for Prussia?
*in Obi won Kenobi's voice*
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can ever imagined.
Rosey Palmer said:Memnon should certainly try to buy off a couple of the allies, but like you said I don't think that's a fool-proof method because they can jump right back in. I wouldn't really call it gamey either, just underhanded.
Sure- but not after a couple of weeks. Peace settlements generally last at least a few years unless something unusual happens, or else the treaty turns out not to be legal or one side fails to honour it. For example the one year truce between Britain and France in the Napoleonic Wars ended because the French were quite obviously massing shipping for a cross-channel invasion, and Britain was dragging her feet over giving up Malta, one of the stipulations of the treaty. If France hadn't been provocative then Britain may have stayed out. Likewise if Russia respects the treaty then the other party won't really have much of a case in re-invading.
Thing is, in the real world, any declaration of war requires a justification- other than just "I want your land". Normally one can be found but if you just made peace with them last week then it won't work out.
Anyway, the penalty for breaking a peace treaty in Victoria is really too small- indeed in some cases it is non-existant. I reckon that breaking a treaty should add to your BB score.
Memnon said:Ok ok ok, can we have a bit of thread etiquette here? Don't tell my enemies what to do!
You don't seem too worried, you've been saying your enemies are doomed.
I was just offering my observations and didn't know I was breaking a code of etiquette, this is the first AAR thread I've ever read or commented on. But anyway I've never even played MP and I highly doubt that your opponents are relying on this AAR to get strategies on how to defeat you. If they are relying on crackpot advice from novice players then I'm sure you'll have no problem using the might of Russia to crush the alliance.
My gut feeling is that your last post is a more likely to be an act, drawing the players into a trap, rather than real fear that what I said would doom the Russian Empire.
But as I really respect the work you've done through VickiWicki and all the advice you've offered improving my gaming experience I'll shut the heck up and enjoy watching the rest of the AAR.
Golden_Deliciou said:
I agree that the penalty for breaking a peace treaty is far too small, and it should definately increase your BB score. Perhaps any territories you took in the war could cost double in BB score as well.
I guess o example of totally crap peace deals would come from the deals the US government made with countless tribes. Often these agreements were null and void the daney they were signed into existence.
Another example is the agreements between the USSR and the other great powers regarding the popular soverienty of Eastern Europe after WWII. In retrospect it's obvious that Stalin never planned to follow through.
Hitler invaded Poland one year after Chamberlane gave him what he wanted in Czechoslovakia.
If I was playing and I made a peace deal recieving provinces I would honor it, because otherwise Memnon and the others would never trust me again. But I'm just saying that if a player broke that trust there would be historical examples of similar backstabbing, I'm not suggesting they use it as a tactic because its really underhanded and would probably hurt the gaming experience of many involved.
But in MP badboy is a joke!! Unless its early and you border the UK who cares what your badboy is you have to chat up the other players.
Hope someone takes a screenshot of the total groundforces when everyone is mobilized. Will the Russian juggernaut be put it its place or will the wave of russian soldiers flood Europe.
Will France join with russia to regain its previous losses to Prussia?
It will definately be interesting to see if the other players have moved in time or whether Prussia and russias other allies have woken up too late
Hope someone takes a screenshot of the total groundforces when everyone is mobilized. Will the Russian juggernaut be put it its place or will the wave of russian soldiers flood Europe.
Will France join with russia to regain its previous losses to Prussia?
It will definately be interesting to see if the other players have moved in time or whether Prussia and russias other allies have woken up too late
billy bob said:Solve this by getting someone to be Russia earlier than memnon get him to disband every division, demobilize, get rid of all of Memnon's resources, pull out all of memnons pops from work, and get rid of Mem's money.
Read above.
Eber said:
As I've said several times several times, we are only all fighting Russia because:
They are by far the most powerful nation, they have more population than UK, USA and Prussia added together!
They have backstabed, betrayed, war-mongered or somehow pissed off every other nation by this point.
Golden_Deliciou said:
I can't see this happening, I'll not be happy with anyone using gamey tactics like making peace and re-joining and players can't be genuinely bought off because if Russia wins this war the game is over. If anyone is planning on peacing out they might as well say now and we'll just quit. Letting Russia build up to this level was insane, but there was nothing I could do about it with the major powers in europe allied to him.
Rosey Palmer said:
You don't seem to be considering what happens if Russia DoWs, or if a player DoWs Russia over a guarantee.
Rosey Palmer said:
Yeah.
Typically the Indians were screwed over because the US Government tried to treat them as homogenous soveriegn states. In reality the Indians were not capable of fulfilling the treaty because the people who signed it often did not fully understand what they were doing and invariably had little or no authority over the people who were supposed to be affected by the treaty. Running Nose doesn't really care if Angry Stoat signed a peace treaty agreeing not to raid white settlements.
Yeah- sadly wasn't obvious to Roosevelt. In this case, the West kinda had a justification for fighting a limited war to install democratic governments in these countries. The trouble is that a system which took this sort of thing into account would be far too complicated for a computer game. You'd need a human umpire (I run a game a bit like that, actually).
Hitler had said "This is the last territorial claim I have to make in Europe" in 1938. But really what bothered the Allies was not so much that Hitler wanted territory, but rather that he was taking it illegally. The purpose of appeasement was to bring Hitler into the system- hence Chamberlain was praised for giving Hitler what he wanted via an international agreement rather than having him take it through war. If Hitler had proposed an international conference to debate the issue of the Polish Corridor, the Allies would have jumped at the chance- and he probably would have won substantial concessions. But Hitler wanted war- largely because his designs were much wider than what the Allies were prepared to give him.
Hitler, of course, had a couple of excuses for his invasion of Poland in 1939. The obvious one was German minorities, and (partly genuine) complaints about their treatment by the Poles, but the Gestapo also staged a Polish army raid on the border town of Gleiwitz, putting concentration camp inmates in Polish uniforms, shooting them, and leaving their bodies in the radio station there.
That's a good policy- but of course if Memnon (for example) then proceeds to do something unforgiveable breaking the treaty becomes an option.
Jerzy_I said:But in MP badboy is a joke!! Unless its early and you border the UK who cares what your badboy is you have to chat up the other players.
Badboy is irrelevant in MP- it's replaced by a much better system: player judgement. In those terms, Memnon is fighting a badboy war right now.
Darkrenown said:
Well- as France and Sweden have no doubt realised, there is more to the game than just coming first. I'm sure France would be quite happy to ride on Memnon's coattails to second place.
Darkrenown said:
My first statement was a bit strong. What I'm trying to say is that the effectiveness of satellites as defensive buffers can be nuetralized by DOWing the satellite. They are still effective in offensive wars.
In the situation at hand I would have ignored a guarantee on Korea and declared war on Poland. This allows you to attack Russia where she is most vulnerable, and if Russia had allies (which she doesn't) she wouldn't be able to call on them for that particular war. Huge advantage, no?
Prestige loss involved? Yes, but I'd say at this point in the game y'all aren't playing for prestige as much as for mil and ind domination.
I'd like, if I could, to give an account of the scenario leading up to the war, simply for your edification. All quotes paraphrased, and not to be taken as exact.
With iron short on the world market, and looking to expand my industrial base, I began moving my army to the Korean border. I checked Korea's diplomatic status a month before the war, finding it allied to no one and guaranteed by no one. Checking again once more a week before the war, with all my troops already in place, I found it had its independence guaranteed by the USA.
I declared war anyway.
My troops began marching into Korea, they had occupied three provinces and the Koreans were falling before my armies, when there came an Ottoman declaration of war. At that moment, I had to choose whether or not to call in my allies--Austria and Spain--and the satellites. Unaware of the new string of alliances that had been formed (this was becuase I had just reinstalled and my popup settings were all off) I called them in. Both dishonored their alliances.
Fortunately for me, the Koreans made a peace offer literally two days later, offering one province. I accepted, and sent my troops marching back to the West.
As the string of alliances began to come clear, I saw that one by one, every country had declared war on me. First the Ottomans, followed by Prussia and Austria, the US, and the UK. All the remained were Sweden, France, and Spain.
All the years of the game, I had stood by Spain, even at the expense of myself and of Prussia. I had insisted Spain be given part of Algeria; I had insisted Spain recieve Gibraltar; I had declared the Monroe Doctrine violated for the benefit of Spanish expansionism. As the declarations came, I paused the game.
"Spain:" I typed, "Et tu, Brute?"
There was a pause on the other end.
"Sorry, baby," was the reply, followed by a message that Spain had joined the war.
And yet France and Sweden remained neutral.
"Caesar rewards his allies," I declared, "From now on, all my actions will at the expense of the belligerents and to the benefit of France and Sweden."
"France," I typed, "You can have the Rhineland."
The French player chuckled.
"Sweden," I typed, "You can have Prussia."
And then began the mantra that I have repeated so often, that shall guide me in this war, in the next, and in all wars to come:
Prussia shall be destroyed.
Austria shall be destroyed.
The Ottoman Empire shall be destroyed.
Great Britain and the United States will have their due.
And the greatest humiliation, the greatest destruction, that will be saved for Spain.
Dante once wrote of the Inferno, at whose core he imagined Satan himself. Lucifer, in a gross antithesis to the Trinity, had three faces--and three mouths. In each mouth, he chewed for all eternity on the three greatest traitors of all time--Judas, Brutus, and Cassius. Judas shall remain, but Brutus and Cassius--they have become Spain and Prussia. They have betrayed the greatest nation on earth; they have betrayed Caesar, and for their crimes, they shall recieve a fate worse than death.
My rage is one that Dante would would recognize--the rage of a furious murdered Emperor looking down from the Heavens upon those who betrayed him, and like him, my revenge will be just as powerful, and just as sweet.
My vengeance cannot be quelled by anything but the blood of the German and the Spanish people. If it takes until Judgement Day itself, their nations shall cower before my armies, and their kings shall be made to kneel before me and beg for mercy.
None shall be granted.
With iron short on the world market, and looking to expand my industrial base, I began moving my army to the Korean border. I checked Korea's diplomatic status a month before the war, finding it allied to no one and guaranteed by no one. Checking again once more a week before the war, with all my troops already in place, I found it had its independence guaranteed by the USA.
I declared war anyway.
My troops began marching into Korea, they had occupied three provinces and the Koreans were falling before my armies, when there came an Ottoman declaration of war. At that moment, I had to choose whether or not to call in my allies--Austria and Spain--and the satellites. Unaware of the new string of alliances that had been formed (this was becuase I had just reinstalled and my popup settings were all off) I called them in. Both dishonored their alliances.
Fortunately for me, the Koreans made a peace offer literally two days later, offering one province. I accepted, and sent my troops marching back to the West.
As the string of alliances began to come clear, I saw that one by one, every country had declared war on me. First the Ottomans, followed by Prussia and Austria, the US, and the UK. All the remained were Sweden, France, and Spain.
All the years of the game, I had stood by Spain, even at the expense of myself and of Prussia. I had insisted Spain be given part of Algeria; I had insisted Spain recieve Gibraltar; I had declared the Monroe Doctrine violated for the benefit of Spanish expansionism. As the declarations came, I paused the game.
"Spain:" I typed, "Et tu, Brute?"
There was a pause on the other end.
"Sorry, baby," was the reply, followed by a message that Spain had joined the war.
And yet France and Sweden remained neutral.
"Caesar rewards his allies," I declared, "From now on, all my actions will at the expense of the belligerents and to the benefit of France and Sweden."
"France," I typed, "You can have the Rhineland."
The French player chuckled.
"Sweden," I typed, "You can have Prussia."
And then began the mantra that I have repeated so often, that shall guide me in this war, in the next, and in all wars to come:
Prussia shall be destroyed.
Austria shall be destroyed.
The Ottoman Empire shall be destroyed.
Great Britain and the United States will have their due.
And the greatest humiliation, the greatest destruction, that will be saved for Spain.
Dante once wrote of the Inferno, at whose core he imagined Satan himself. Lucifer, in a gross antithesis to the Trinity, had three faces--and three mouths. In each mouth, he chewed for all eternity on the three greatest traitors of all time--Judas, Brutus, and Cassius. Judas shall remain, but Brutus and Cassius--they have become Spain and Prussia. They have betrayed the greatest nation on earth; they have betrayed Caesar, and for their crimes, they shall recieve a fate worse than death.
My rage is one that Dante would would recognize--the rage of a furious murdered Emperor looking down from the Heavens upon those who betrayed him, and like him, my revenge will be just as powerful, and just as sweet.
My vengeance cannot be quelled by anything but the blood of the German and the Spanish people. If it takes until Judgement Day itself, their nations shall cower before my armies, and their kings shall be made to kneel before me and beg for mercy.
None shall be granted.