Darkrenown said:Well that sucks
Hey! What’s going on! Darkrenown quotes something that’s deleted later? Exploit? OK, what’s the straight skinny?
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Hey! What’s going on! Darkrenown quotes something that’s deleted later? Exploit? OK, what’s the straight skinny?
november said:
The fact of the matter is, there is an exploit in Vicky that allows one to see everyone else's armies, just as if fog of war was off. It's obvious how that would affect MP, naturally. Memnon told me he knew about it, which led me to go and find it myself; but when I listed it, he was upset at the way the message could be construed as to suggest his using it to spy on people's moves and deployment in the game. It was something I never meant to suggest. He claims he's never done that even if he did have the means and nobody can prove him right or wrong, so I removed any references to that from the original post. I'm posting this at his request to end speculation & confusion.
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Lamprey said:
Yes, I can see how that could be constructed as a serious breech of trust and sportsmanship. I’m curious, why didn’t he address this himself?
Well, since it was Lamprey's post, I hoped it could be edited without any fuss or anyone noticing, but unfortunately, Darkrenown saw the post and quoted it before Lamprey could remove it. I was talking to Lamprey about it on IRC, and we just agreed this would be the best way to handle things. I saw no need to make a public issue of it, which would probably only degenerate into name-calling and low blows.november said:
Memnon said:
Gotcha. I was confused more than anything. And you're right, as I know from my MP RTS days that, exploits—cheats--ruin games faster than anything.
It sounds like you guys are having fun.
november said:
God, yes, maphackers more or less ruined my Starcraft experience for a while before effective anti-hack programs were created.
Sounds like an awesome game! I was in the midst of reading it when Paradox's site went down, leaving me breathless.
Anyway, any updates? How's the Russian bear handling the assault?
I question the value of having Poland as a satellite. If I was an enemy who wanted to attack Russia I'd just DOW Poland first, that would bring it into the war and any border advantages Russia had would be gone because Poland wouldn't last long against a human player. The tech trading is a good thing with a satellite, and that's a legit reason to do it.
Anyway, any updates? How's the Russian bear handling the assault?
I question the value of having Poland as a satellite. If I was an enemy who wanted to attack Russia I'd just DOW Poland first, that would bring it into the war and any border advantages Russia had would be gone because Poland wouldn't last long against a human player. The tech trading is a good thing with a satellite, and that's a legit reason to do it.
Rosey Palmer said:
Well, Russia could come into the war- though the above would prevent Russia activating any other alliances she has.
About that Russia tech-do you guys allow players to give away tech in deals? (so receiver don't get -10 RP penalty)?
By the way, what are populations of great powers? And national populations, while we're at it?
By the way, what are populations of great powers? And national populations, while we're at it?
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Rosey Palmer said:
It sure is an awesome game! However, we're a busy bunch and can't play more than once or twice a week. We play saturdays starting at 11EST (17CET), and we haven't planned a mid-week session this week. But do sit tight and wait for the surely exciting next episode of Europe Ablaze!
The idea is that if someone tries that tactic, then Russia can choose to honor or dishonor the alliance. And if someone DOWs Russia, it can choose not to call in its allies, and then the means fo enterance into Russian territory becomes more difficult.Rosey Palmer said:
Of course, for several reasons--more technical that otherwise--this failed to occur, but trust me, in general, it's a good strategy for large nations.
Golden_Deliciou said:
Obviously Russia could join the war. I was saying that if I was going to declare war on Russia I'd declare Poland to do so. It negates any advantage Russia had from having it has a satellite, forces Russia to actively recruit allies for the war instead of using existing alliances, and prevents Russia from using Poland as a staging ground for an invasion. And you can invade Russia through Poland, where Memnon's defenses are probably less built up.
I really don't see satellites has effective buffers in a MP game at all, if someone wants to declare war on you all they have to do is declare war on your satellite and wipe out the measly ai before you can even mobilize. Shouldn't be too hard against Poland.
BUT-and it's a big but, I do see it as being an effective means of trading techs. I often try to satellite someone like the Netherlands or Belgium, because they can trade some awesome techs. This reason makes it even more important to take out Poland if you're going after Russia.
Though I don't know the outcome of the war, if his opponents play as a team I don't see how he can withstand the onslaught. Simply managing a multiple front war against four or five human players would seem difficult. His opponents should combine their navies under one, and take out Memnon's, then land anywhere they please. But whether they can stay unified remains to be seen. No offense to Memnon, but if I was them I would sign a solemn pact to bring Russia down before he became unstoppable, just for the sake of a decent game. And out of respect for Memnon they should realize that without anything other than complete dedication to that objective will result in Memnon wiping them all out one by one, just as he has promised several times.
Memnon said:
I am now a Captain! Yeay!
You posted before I finished my long post.
I am only saying that if someone wants to take you out they should go through Poland first. Obviously, if they don't want to attack you then they won't declare war on Poland.
But if they do want to declare war on you then Poland does very little good for you. If you don't want to fight them then of course you'll dishonor your alliance, but how much good will that do you? A couple months after Poland is taken out they'll DOW you.
So in summary, if no one wants to attack you then Poland is nifty as a tech buddy, but as a defensive measure Poland does you little good, because if I want to attack you I'll just declare war on Poland first.
As an offensive strategy against Prussia Poland is nice to have because if you declare war then they can't go through Poland. Just another reason that Poland should be taken out first if someone wants to attack Russia. I wouldn't like letting you keep it as a satellite.
And in the two months before they attack me, I can mobilize and order dozens of new divisions, and begin fort construction at key points in the empire. Really, imagine if you had two months notice before every war, what you could do with it. Moreover, don't forget that Poland is too big to be annexed in one war, at least by one person, though in a war this size it could disappear.
Still, in the loong run, creating not just Poland, but several buffer states means that no one can get to you without giving explicit warning beforehand.
Still, in the loong run, creating not just Poland, but several buffer states means that no one can get to you without giving explicit warning beforehand.
Memnon said:
I wouldn't worry about taking provinces or annexing Poland, I'd make it my satellite for the tech benefits.
I doubt that many divisions will be needed to take out Poland, maybe 12-15 at the most just to satellite it before you're finished mobilizing. All other divisons can engage in a sudden assualt on Russia itself. You've mentioned in earlier posts how their surprise attack won't do much good because you're almost mobilzed, and I agree with you. You can't beat Russia by surprise alone, your army must be better. If your army is better and you want to take out Russia you should DOW one of her satillites, preventing her from using her alliances, forcing her to defend positions behind the satellite, and allowing you to gain a satellite.
I guess what I'm saying is that buffer zones are very effective if your opponents allow them to be, but that if a satellite is DOWed the defense benefits are overrated IMO.
But like you've pointed out satellites are really great for gaining techs and for using in offensive wars as avenues of assualt against Prussia or Austria for example. So yes satellites are good to have, and I'd make it a priority to capture them if I was going to wage a war on their owners.
Rosey Palmer provides lucid analysis. Memnon’s answer to every suggest is *thick Russian accent* “so what? Russia will crush you,” which, based on my current AAR, my be the unvarnished truth. Russia is a monster.
While a unified alliance against Russia appears mandatory, it may be quite difficult for the allies to all get on the same page and agree on war aims. And if I was Memnon, I would use my position of strength to peel-off one or two of them.
While a unified alliance against Russia appears mandatory, it may be quite difficult for the allies to all get on the same page and agree on war aims. And if I was Memnon, I would use my position of strength to peel-off one or two of them.
november said:
Given the situation, Russia needs to be smashed. That is, have a chunk of her population taken out or force her WE so high that they all revolt.
Yeah. Memnon has two options in this respect. He can focus his forces on one front (figure Prussia first as they're physically nearest) and go on the defensive elsewhere, exploiting his strong frontiers and strategic depth to buy time to destroy one or two of his enemies and force them out of the war- preferably with war indemnities to pay the costs of beating the others. The other choice is to quickly offer rich but not enormous gains to one or two of the players to buy them off- but this is risky as they may just jump back in straight away, though that would be gamey.
Well, like any good player, i still have a few aces up my sleeve...five aces, in fact.Golden_Deliciou said:
Don't count me out yet. I have a few plans and a few more tricks to pull. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreampt of in your philosophy.
Golden_Deliciou said:
The allies should focus initial assualts in and around St.Petersburg, hoping to grab a couple provinces and hold on against counterattacks in the heart of Memnon's industrial powerhouse. I wouldn't try to take out all of Russia, but rather grab a good foothold and hold on, fighting more of a defensive war and grabbing more territory only very gradually as Memnon's counterattacks near St. Petersburg wore down his troop strength. If you get spread out in Russia your troops will be annihilated! Focusing in this area will also prevent Memnon from massing most of his troops there and wiping Prussia off the map. The key to victory will be massive landings in and around St.Petersburg, slow and steady gains there, and unpredictable landings in other parts of Russia with a few troops gaining footholds in undefended areas.
Memnon should certainly try to buy off a couple of the allies, but like you said I don't think that's a fool-proof method because they can jump right back in. I wouldn't really call it gamey either, just underhanded.
History is full of backstabbers and bribes coming back to bite the briber in the butt.