Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations – Dev diary 6: Improved Diplomacy

[Opera]

Guys, I think we are getting close to release. I would not be surprised if next week inside of the DD they announced the release date while talking about all of the free stuff.

My guess would be that there are at least 2 DDs left: the one about interface improvements next week and the one that includes Sikhism the week after that. I'd add a final DD for miscellaneous changes that would also be when they announce the release date for the week after along with enabling pre-order, much like they did for Rajas of India. So I'd say 3 to 4 weeks left, optimistically.

 

[Elfryc]

Reminds me of something a heard in a technology documentary: Robots will never take over the world, because we write thier coding, we tell them exactly what they do and they can't think on thier own without human input.

It seems this documentary didn't speak about terrorism, or about computer viruses that are a very, very softened form of terrorism

I much prefer a better AI that cheats to a worse one which is pure.

I'm not sure who would stay 'pure' when playing EU4. So, it seems that your sentence makes great sense

 

[Vishaing]

I would say the only time I mind the AI cheating is with actual numerical bonuses that they get like +10% tax income or something, because ultimately it means that it can be physically impossible for a player to have a richer country then the AI. Essentially, any bonus which meant that the country would instantly have more soldiers, or make more money, just because it passed under AI control is a bad system in my mind.

Also, about the Carrot-Stick with Power Projection; Is it possible for Mods to add the Stick back in? IE can we add penalties for having low Power Projection? I'm thinking just a penalty to Prestige, but I might want to add more once I actually have the expansion to work with.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It seems this documentary didn't speak about terrorism, or about computer viruses that are a very, very softened form of terrorism

Computer viruses are not necessarily terrorism. A lot of them have a purpose squarely and solely set on theft. Similar to how a guy who runs into Walmart and charges out with a pair of jeans isn't a terrorist, using these viruses in that case makes one a criminal, but not a terrorist.

Now, a self-aware virus bent on destroying in the general sense...yeah that would probably qualify.

 

[InnocentIII]

I'm not sure who would stay 'pure' when playing EU4. So, it seems that your sentence makes great sense

Right, maybe closer to pure.

As a general rule of thumb, players aren't actually upset by AI cheating but rather noticing that the AI is cheating.

True, but to some extent announcing certain cheats builds it into the system and people don't mind it even if they see it. I know it bothers some, but I can see the effects of no-attrition-at-sea for the AI all the time, and I'm fine with it. If the AI zigged and zagged to match fine troop movements they should not see at all, yeah, that might upset me. If the AI could make big decisions knowing troops strengths in the FoW, you wouldn't really see it. If they had a big force waiting for every invasion, then not so much.

EDIT - what I'm getting at is that strategic cheating just looks like smarter play, tactical cheating looks like cheating.

Maybe you could have a set of spy events which occur the same to everyone, but which were designed to help the AI make big decisions. If each country got an epiphany once or twice a year, to us it would look like momentary clearing of FoW (one country, all rivals, all enemies?), nice, but meh. For the AI, the idea is to figure out just what it needs and periodically provide it. Nominally even effect on the playing field, but chosen to mitigate AI issues.

 

[ARC Starscream]

Computer viruses are not necessarily terrorism. A lot of them have a purpose squarely and solely set on theft. Similar to how a guy who runs into Walmart and charges out with a pair of jeans isn't a terrorist, using these viruses in that case makes one a criminal, but not a terrorist.

Now, a self-aware virus bent on destroying in the general sense...yeah that would probably qualify.

Google is here to help, google would not destroy us, google is all, google is one

jokes aside, interested to see the power system in game

 

[krisslanza]

This guy is an AI trying to trick you, fyi. (Ok, I'm done now.)

Beep boop, I am a normal human being who enjoys normal human being activites. I am trustworthy. Beep.

As a general rule of thumb, players aren't actually upset by AI cheating but rather noticing that the AI is cheating.

Generally, since all AI cheats to a certain extent in games.
Though some people throw this idea on their heads, and seem to be fine with the AI cheating... if the devs didn't do it. If modders seem to do it, they love it to death, but if the devs do it... *meaningful glance at another grand strategy title made by another company, and at certain people who love a certain garrison script for certain title even though its blanant, obvious cheats*

Though if we ever made self-learning AI, would we actually put AI programmers like Wiz out of a job? I mean, if they can self-learn, they wouldn't need a programmer anymore...

 

[PiriReis]

Wealth of Nations looks like a must-buy. Thanks for the update and ... is that Egypt we see set as Poland's rival in the screenie?

Yes, its the flag of the kingdom of Egypt.

On the screenshot - what means the "books" icon (or what is this)?

Policies icon I suppose.

 

[mursolini]

Why do I keep envisioning situation where high power projection, high prestige and high army\navy tradition combined with idea groups and certain NIs ala Prussia will lead to absurd morale boosts? Just add piety to the mix too if one plays as Ottomans etc.

Sunni Prussia for the win.

 

[Konair0s]

Well, as it stands now, yeah robots could never take over the world as you'd imagine... now, if someone could actually make self-learning AI (or well, a real artifical intelligence)

Take a look at IBM Watson. There are much works going on about AI. Also, to some distinct there is self-learning (Machine Learning). Just in case you are interested.

 

[hajutze]

While you're improving diplomacy, add some sort of a tributary system so the hordes will have other goals than completely over-running kingdoms like Georgia for example.

 

[zedyue]

"And if you really manage to be active against your rivals you get the most interesting reward, if you have over 50 Power Projection you will get +1 monarch point of each type every month."

Oh my. And the lack of 'punishment' for dropping down to 0 is nice too so it's just a bonus for those who are active against their rivals. I think small countries who rival each other (because they only can rival each other now?) might benefit the most from this and tech up faster like in eu3 since they'll have less buildings and be able to dominate each other with embargoes and whatnot without necessarily drawing the ire of the big boys who will be more inclined to bother each other for similar reasons.

 

[DominusNovus]

Quick question: For the rule that you can't replace a rival within 10 years, I presume that that won't apply to a rival who is annexed within that 10 years, correct?

 

[AgentPaper]

There is no penalty for low power projection, it is purely an opportunity cost. You can play pacifist no worse off than before.

Just a note, while from a technical standpoint there might not be a penalty, in practice it will be a penalty, in the same way that a country that chooses not to tech up military will be penalized with lower than average military stats. Someone playing the pacifist will absolutely be worse off than before, since everyone else will have more army morale and monarch points compared to them, effectively causing them to have less.

Not that this is an issue, mind. I like that players (and the AI for that matter) are being encouraged to go to war for reasons other than territorial gains. I just hope that these wars really can stay truly limited in scope, rather than turning into beat-down drag-out total wars that end with one side or the other fully occupied with 0 troops left. Not that there's anything especially wrong with that kind of war, but when they all end the same way, it starts to get old.

 

[Chevaresqye]

Just a note, while from a technical standpoint there might not be a penalty, in practice it will be a penalty, in the same way that a country that chooses not to tech up military will be penalized with lower than average military stats. Someone playing the pacifist will absolutely be worse off than before, since everyone else will have more army morale and monarch points compared to them, effectively causing them to have less.

So I think there should be penalty if you declare rival but lose in the competition. The more rival you have, the bigger penalty/bonus you can get.

 

[Incompetent]

In this week's dev diary I’m going to talk a bit about the diplomatic improvement that are coming for Wealth of Nations but first I'm going to mention something that was in the previous dev diary. In that one we announced the cardinal automation feature and while I think the feature is one of the more requested ones, the fact that it was going to be expansion only caused much debate. Expansion features have a tendency to always cause heated discussions and while free stuff is nice the people that buy the expansion pay for all the new features and we need to make sure people get what they pay for. This time however, we decided to use a novel approach, we made a poll (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?770873-Community-Decision-on-WoN-1.6) where we listed some features that could go in the expansion. And now the verdict is in, in Wealth of Nations the cardinal automation is now going to be a free features, and the transfer trade power option is going to be expansion only.

Great stuff! I was hesitant about Wealth of Nations, but this seals the deal for me . I'm happy to give money to a company that listens to players and keeps improving on the game.

 

[TheeLord]

First of all, you can no longer pick whoever you want as a rival. Before people tended to use the rival system as a targeting mechanic, if you wanted to fight a weaker party you set them as rival. Now we have a picking mechanic, which incidentally is the same as when the AI picks rivals, that gives you a selection of nations that are serious competitors. In this list there should not be nations that are significantly stronger or weaker than yourself, also things like being a naval power plays a part.

Then, to measure how well you are fighting your rivals (if you name someone your official rival, if you fail to fight him you will look weak) we add Power Projection value. Power Projection is a value that gets added to for things you do to fight your rivals. For example you get Power Projection if you are embargoing a rival, if you send a warning to your rival or supporting rebels in a rivals nation. Another interesting example is that you get power projection for sending money to nations your rivals are fighting in a war. Those things I just mentioned are static and gives you positive power projection while they hold true. Then you have some dynamic sources of Power Projection that gives you a one time boost that will then decay over time, like a boost when you take provinces from a rival or when the rival loose a province to someone else in a war where you participate. You can lose power projection as well, you loose power projection for example if you lose provinces to your rival. The Rivals system is supposed to reflect actual rivalries in the world and bigger nations are expected to have more rivals (max 3 though) and if they have less than that their power projection will suffer. You can also not just change rivals whenever you feel like it, you can't change rival for 10 years after you picked it and it carries a significant Diplomatic Power cost, so think carefully about your choice. You can however not go under zero, so you would like to continue to ignore your rivals in the world, feel free to do so. If you on the other hand show the world that you can stand up to your rivals, you get increased defensiveness, trade power, military morale and legitimacy. And if you really manage to be active against your rivals you get the most interesting reward, if you have over 50 Power Projection you will get +1 monarch point of each type every month.

Wow, did you take this from my multiplayer ideas thread? This is something we were mulling around as rules for our upcoming Monday night game, very very similar in concept! Great ideas! =)

 

[zemuzil]

Poland cannot into navy

 

[Kwami]

This all sounds great, but...

Please, please, please fix the new icon in the top bar to have the partial circle around it like all the others. It looks so bad in that screenshot and I know that it's going to drive me insane if it isn't fixed.

/OCD

 

[Jorlem]

What happens if an inland country gets in a trade war, with regards to the wargoal?