Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations – Dev diary 6: Improved Diplomacy

[Chevaresqye]

Well there is this:


Or maybe you ask whether we must pick a rival or not, if what I take from this quote is right:

then the only penalty would be on power projection which as previous quote said wouldn't go below zero, so I don't think it will affect pacifist game...

Zero legitimacy, Republic tradition and religious unity really hurt. Until there is a clear statement that zero power projection won't hurt, it is hard to tell. The previous dev multiplayer session mentioned some negative effect for low power projection, but I'm not sure how far they tweak those number.

Nobody to embargo! No enemy of my enemy is my friend relations bonus..., no missions to do stuff towards the rival...
(being pacifist and neutral isnt really a good option in a tough world)

I don't mind missing those bonus due to my pacifist playstyle, just don't put any penalty for it.

 

[TolHydra]

What a ridiculous post. Hope you got paid enough.

This diary included everything I had hope from a diplomacy polish (not coalitions, diplomacy), I'm wondering If I should gift a copy of the expansion to one of my friends as well.. to get him back into EU4..

 

[Charles555nc]

Someone on the internet has a different value structure than you, they must be a bought-and-paid-for-ne'er-do-well!

Being a sheep is a "value structure" now? LOL. Fanboyism isnt rare or special or interesting or persuasive.

 

[InnocentIII]

Wow. +1/+1/+1 is huge.

Being a sheep is a "value structure" now? LOL. Fanboyism isnt rare or special or interesting or persuasive.

Is a fanboy anyone with icons?

 

[Charles555nc]

This diary included everything I had hope from a diplomacy polish (not coalitions, diplomacy), I'm wondering If I should gift a copy of the expansion to one of my friends as well.. to get them back into EU4..

With the current gaming market, with every company releasing things half finished and with alot less than they promised, I wont be preordering ANYTHING in the near future.

Im excited about the new expo- I mean dlc, too but I remain aware of previous abuses of my trust.

And I want to hear about massive Ai improvements!

 

[TolHydra]

With the current gaming market, with every company releasing things half finished and with alot less than they promised, I wont be preordering ANYTHING in the near future.

Im excited about the new expo- I mean dlc, too but I remain aware of previous abuses of my trust.

And I want to hear about massive Ai improvements!

I have to say, I probably would be better off having not pre-ordered Eu4, Do I regret it? no, Why? Because I know how great it can get and it eventually will get, thanks to the examples of ck2, and eu3.

I can wait it's not a problem.

Besides, it's not like we have another grand strategy developer that is doing a better job.

 

[LibertyComrade]

With the current gaming market, with every company releasing things half finished and with alot less than they promised, I wont be preordering ANYTHING in the near future.

Im excited about the new expo- I mean dlc, too but I remain aware of previous abuses of my trust.

And I want to hear about massive Ai improvements!

Good for you? Welcome to free markets, other people will value products differently than you. Their willingness to buy what you consider to be an "inferior" product will shift the needle on what is produced. If you don't want them to do that, so that "better" products are offered and higher standards are set, then calling them ridiculous is probably not the most persuasive of tactics. It makes you look like a raving child throwing a tantrum, not someone whose opinion is meritorious and should hold weight.

 

[Seelmeister]

No insulting other posters - this includes terms such as 'fanboy' or 'troll'

 

[Wizzington]

There is no penalty for low power projection, it is purely an opportunity cost. You can play pacifist no worse off than before.

 

[MarkS00N]

The previous dev multiplayer session mentioned some negative effect for low power projection, but I'm not sure how far they tweak those number.

This is the reason in polling I choose rival system to be WoN only, because I fear the consequence of having low power projection.

However when it was shown in the dev stream, the negative effect only apply when the power projection is negative, thus by mentioning that the lowest amount of power projection is zero, it is (to me at least) automatically means there will be no negative effect.

EDIT: :ninja:-ed

 

[Charles555nc]

You are a genius "different people are different" who wouldve guessed.

And if I disagree with you im a "raving child" maybe you are describing yourself more than you know? LOL.

Calling for standards and higher quality and not being slavish effeminate liars will lead to everyone getting what they want- more sales and a better product.

Where as, kissing butt no matter what happens, like you do, leads to the lowest common denominator.

 

[lareman]

Hopefully we'll be able to negotiate 100% trade power from vastly inferior vassals? I'm vastly enjoying a game as Hansa, where my original goal was to make much money with as little provinces as possible. However, I felt forced to annex my vassals in Lübeck (most of North Germany is in vassaldom under me), because they were sucking the node dry.

 

[Wizzington]

The original design had penalties but we felt the system had too much negative impact on player choice that way so the stick was replaced by more carrot.

 

[IIWW]

In case of demanding fleet basing right in a peace deal: I wouldn't have to pay for this fb right? At least for the duration of truce (if it's not automatically canceled after this). Also, would a military access and fbr obtained in this way boost relations?

 

[Jankie]

As a programmer I can say that "cardinal automation" ain't a big deal for the coders and I see this as a fix of the annoying cardinal voting system.
On the other side I appreciate PDS's continuative work on every game the make and therefore, every of their games is a master piece!

 

[LibertyComrade]

In case of demanding fleet basing right in a peace deal: I wouldn't have to pay for this fb right? At least for the duration of truce (if it's not automatically canceled after this). Also, would a military access and fbr obtained in this way boost relations?

I would think the best implementation for enforced fleet basing rights, military access, or transferred trade power would be either:
a.) The length of the agreement is specified and modifiable in the peace treaty, and not just an automatic 5 years for the truce period.
b.) Have the effects be permanent but once the truce period ends the defeated party gains a CB against the conquering party to throw off the effects, much like an independence movement.

I think (B) would be ideal, but (A) would be much easier to implement. Heck, speaking of modifiable lengths-of-contract it would be really interesting if the truce period could be negotiated and not automatically 5 years no matter what. A conquered nation could negotiate for a longer truce by giving up more territory, or vice-versa.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

With the current gaming market, with every company releasing things half finished and with alot less than they promised, I wont be preordering ANYTHING in the near future.

Im excited about the new expo- I mean dlc, too but I remain aware of previous abuses of my trust.

And I want to hear about massive Ai improvements!

I'm generally with you on the gaming market + lowering standards thing, though frustratingly the writing is on the wall there. However, "massive" AI improvements are somewhat a pipe dream. Not only are they more time consuming than a lot of alternative improvements to the game, but they have a cost beyond the $ to make them; they offer diminishing returns on "how well does the AI play" against "how much does this slow the game down to a crawl while the AIs spam calculations". Getting the AI to react differently (IE better) given x stimulus is one thing; making it fundamentally better in all respects is not realistic.

I would like this game less if it were 2-3x slower than it is now, even if the AI were a bit more stout.

Especially when everything from MP stability to bugs with new content to the awful UI are objectively bigger issues and in some cases significantly easier to fix (UI being the simplest, as it's a matter of adding text to tell the player accurately what the **** is happening or will happen). Although the AI isn't stellar, the state of the game puts it down the list of things that need attention...because heck it actually works even if it isn't close to as good as an experienced human. Give me the update where "de-sync" does not = "absolutely must re-host" first any day.

 

[Charles555nc]

I'm generally with you on the gaming market + lowering standards thing, though frustratingly the writing is on the wall there. However, "massive" AI improvements are somewhat a pipe dream. Not only are they more time consuming than a lot of alternative improvements to the game, but they have a cost beyond the $ to make them; they offer diminishing returns on "how well does the AI play" against "how much does this slow the game down to a crawl while the AIs spam calculations". Getting the AI to react differently (IE better) given x stimulus is one thing; making it fundamentally better in all respects is not realistic.

Especially when everything from MP stability to bugs with new content to the awful UI are objectively bigger issues and in some cases significantly easier to fix (UI being the simplest, as it's a matter of adding text to tell the player accurately what the **** is happening or will happen). Although the AI isn't stellar, the state of the game puts it down the list of things that need attention...because heck it actually works even if it isn't close to as good as an experienced human. Give me the update where "de-sync" does not = "absolutely must re-host" first any day.

I believe some of that, but I think choice is King. Let the player decide to select "hard ai" hidden deep in the game, so that the casuals never know how easy they have it. Satisfy the I want a non cheating, adult level, challenge crowd with a tougher, smarter, more creative ai and yet dont scare off the hate to think casual crowd, who wont be bothered to look at the other options to begin with.

With a decent, even average, computer nowadays, Im sure the game speed wont go down much at all (again dont cater to the lowest common denominator!).

 

[Chevaresqye]

The original design had penalties but we felt the system had too much negative impact on player choice that way so the stick was replaced by more carrot.

Good to hear this.

Maybe, to give the system more meaningful risk/reward , penalty may be apply for having rival but losing in the competition. So by having no rival, the power projection is permanently stuck at 0. Having 1 rival, the power projection can range from -17 to +17. Two rival, the number will range from -34 to +34. At 3 rival, the power projection can min/max out at -50/+50. Maybe this will give players an alternative methods to stop AI from rival them other than completely destroying the AI nation.

However, rivalry system that solely bases on score always bugs me. How come Austria who only focuses on HRE matter rivals England who has given up continental ambitious? I hope you could do something about that.

 

[Dr. Dan]

The original design had penalties but we felt the system had too much negative impact on player choice that way so the stick was replaced by more carrot.

Run with this design philosophy. Best news so far!