Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations – Dev diary 5: Religion

[unmerged(1823)]

No matter what we do, its always some people upset.

'Too many features for free' or 'Too few feature for free'.

As usual, we have ended up with way too much for free, as you'll see in the next few weeks..

 

[grisamentum]

Uh, what. Last I checked, the Calvanists weren't particularly tolerant of the other Christian faiths, at least during the centuries surrounding the Thirty Years' War.

Yes, it's highly inaccurate. But the way the game works, it is necessary for balance because otherwise converting to Calvinist is a recipe for disaster, since you'll very rarely have many Calvinist provinces before you convert.

 

[riadach]

Put Weber Down!

 

[grisamentum]

No matter what we do, its always some people upset.

'Too many features for free' or 'Too few feature for free'.

As usual, we have ended up with way too much for free, as you'll see in the next few weeks..

It's not about how many paid vs how many free, it's about what's paid and what's free.

Cardinal clicking is probably the least popular UI element in EU4. Improving the worst parts of your UI should never be a "paid" feature, regardless of what other features are paid or what is free.

 

[Konair0s]

No matter what we do, its always some people upset.

'Too many features for free' or 'Too few feature for free'.

As usual, we have ended up with way too much for free, as you'll see in the next few weeks..

It is ironical that the features which are "too many" are non-optional imposed, buggy and controversal things and the feature which is "too few" is routine automation and UI improvement.

 

[Meneth]

No matter what we do, its always some people upset.

'Too many features for free' or 'Too few feature for free'.

As usual, we have ended up with way too much for free, as you'll see in the next few weeks..

I can't remember anyone seriously complaining about too much being free.

But as I've mentioned earlier in this thread, it is obvious that people's impressions depend on what's being made DLC.
Note how everyone who's complaining is complaining specifically about the Papacy automation. No one's complaining about any of the other things that've just been announced to be part of the DLC itself.
No one reasonable minds the idea of DLC, but it is all a matter of degree. The Papacy automation is clearly in the realm of nickel and diming, as it is a fix for a poor UI design decision. While the Hindu stuff for example most people don't mind, since that's an actual new idea with obvious work put into it.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

For the record, i counted 7 other major interface improvements that are free, just from the first page of changes.

Here's the deal.. i'll figure out 4-5 alternatives for you, and you can vote which one is paid for. (From a bunch of free features)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

No matter what we do, its always some people upset.

'Too many features for free' or 'Too few feature for free'.

As usual, we have ended up with way too much for free, as you'll see in the next few weeks..

It's the rationale between what you're making free and what you aren't. Things that obviously fit the theme of a DLC such as merchant changes in WoN or the tribes in CoP are reasonable DLC items. Things that don't and are independent features such as support independence (which almost universally gets applied to non-colony vassals in practice) or a UI change are not reasonable to package in a themed DLC.

Put another way: how does the automated papacy in any way contribute to the wealth of nations? It's a QoL change, not a significant change to how the game works. That's not the kind of thing you put in a paid DLC without getting people upset.

Most of us will buy the DLC, but quite a few are frustrated at what's being prioritized. Also rather than complaining that a given feature was free, people were complaining about what that "free" feature did to the game play via being implemented before it was fleshed out. Protectorates are an excellent example of that; we're STILL seeing bugs involving them, but in 1.4 where the outcry over them was the greatest they allowed distant insta warleader switches at any time, shattered alliances at the drop of a hat, allowed (and still allow in some cases) 100% annexation of giant nations, and cause permanent wars. The issue with them isn't that they're free, but that for many players that feature altered their experience in a negative way because it wasn't truly ready yet...and the patch history surrounding it is the best evidence.

 

[Calad]

To me the Cardinal thing is an excelent dlc feature. The game was designed without it and you can have the same amount of fun as you could before the DLC was released, and its not something that affects gamebalance for the people that doesnt have the DLC. But if you buy the DLC you get a little bit of extra value, as you should.

Im sorry but you are full of ****.

Saying automated version and vanilla version are "same amount of fun" is pure bullshit. It affects literally how fun game is and compels players to buy it. EU4 could have been a great game and adding EA-stylish DLC content makes you all look really immoral or jackasses how you want it. We customers, we are adults and we have our own business and we are not stupid so dont even bother to give us your corporate smile.

 

[Meneth]

For the record, i counted 7 other major interface improvements that are free, just from the first page of changes.

See, the issue is the very idea that interface improvements should possibly be something that's paid for.
Though it doesn't help that the original papacy was a great lesson on how not ​to do micromanagement.

 

[Gyrospeck]

For the record, i counted 7 other major interface improvements that are free, just from the first page of changes.

Here's the deal.. i'll figure out 4-5 alternatives for you, and you can vote which one is paid for. (From a bunch of free features)

This is a very generous offer. I appreciate devs that respond and communicate with their customers. Thanks Balor, I'd be interesting in voting.

Also, this expansion is looking better with every diary.

 

[oblio-]

For the record, i counted 7 other major interface improvements that are free, just from the first page of changes.

Here's the deal.. i'll figure out 4-5 alternatives for you, and you can vote which one is paid for. (From a bunch of free features)

We appreciate the free UI improvements. I liked for example the stars for the generals, they were awesome.
However, had you have moved the stars to the CoP DLC, I would have never seen them. Why? Because I'm not really interested in North American tribes. I might try it, but only during a DLC sale.

Stuff such as Hindu religion improvements or Chinese religion improvements or Reformed improvements or other stuff like this, I'd gladly pay for.
Moving clear UI improvements (or even fixes for what some people would consider comparatively weak UI design) to a DLC seems... unfair.

 

[Hiram_Maxim]

+2 heretic tolerance for Reformed is puzzling since the countries that adopted it weren't particularly tolerant to other forms of Christianity, especially Catholicism. I can remember seeing a photo from the Netherlands in the early 20th century--a Calvinist husband and his Catholic wife were forbidden from being buried together. They had their graves facing each other and incorporate a pair of hands clasping over the wall. There's also a story from the English Civil War of Scottish POWs being held in a Anglican church. The Scots prisoners vandalized the statues of saints there because to them they were a form of romanist idol-worship.

 

[Calad]

For the record, i counted 7 other major interface improvements that are free, just from the first page of changes.

Here's the deal.. i'll figure out 4-5 alternatives for you, and you can vote which one is paid for. (From a bunch of free features)

It doesnt really matter at all what you think or say after this: bad marketing is bad marketing. Maybe you make few thousand extra kronors because people wants to have automated cardinal-system. However this make me think what kind of similar DLC HoI4 will have. I am sure others feel it as well.

This kind of extreamly shortsighted strategy will not generate a lot of extra revenue but you will definetly hear of this years later and maybe few people stops buying games or DLC here, but marketing is always a mystery.

 

[Stadhouder]

Looking forward to this DLC. Hindu will be very intersting to play with now.

Papacy
And finally, as a little extra to those who buy Wealth of Nations, you will now be able to automate cardinal influence, by using a checkbox next to each cardinal. With that checked the game will automatically assign enough influence to selected cardinals to keep your guy ahead in the competition. This is mostly to avoid the busy work of fighting to add +5 here and there to keep France out of the Throne of Peter.

This should be part of the free patch. It fixes something, a very user unfriendly interface for a certain game mechanic. It doesn't add a new game-play element or anything. I'm okay paying for added game-play mechanics, but charging for UI fixes, shame on you Paradox!

 

[Haydn]

Paradox ripping off their customers again.

 

[net.split]

I'm surprised this automated papacy feature is so wanted. I always seem to be supporting two cardinals at once, and while it's certainly annoying to have to keep clicking it all the time, I can't really automate it with a single dump option. Then I will lose my second cardinal.

Probably just need to slow down papal influence gain so you don't have to bother with it as frequently.

 

[gnome109]

I need release date!!:angry:

 

[CzokletMuss]

For the record, i counted 7 other major interface improvements that are free, just from the first page of changes.

Here's the deal.. i'll figure out 4-5 alternatives for you, and you can vote which one is paid for. (From a bunch of free features)

Yay, riddles!

Honestly people, PDX is the best game company I've ever come into contact with. I support their DLC policy in 100% as a proud owner of 90% of DLCs released for CK2.

BTW "Sunest Invasion" was great!

 

[grisamentum]

I'm surprised this automated papacy feature is so wanted. I always seem to be supporting two cardinals at once, and while it's certainly annoying to have to keep clicking it all the time, I can't really automate it with a single dump option. Then I will lose my second cardinal.

Probably just need to slow down papal influence gain so you don't have to bother with it as frequently.

It's not a dump. It's like channeling your gain. Presumably you can check two boxes to channel it to two cardinals.