Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations – Dev diary 5: Religion

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Blxz

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NA was Napoleons Ambition.. the first expansion to Eu3, which was mostly interface fixes, and is still one of our most popular expansions we ever made.. But then I realised that most people in this thread joined the forum a long time after 2007.

Yes, many people did join a long time after 2007, possibly myself included. This doesn't mean that some of these people were not avid gamers with paradox before that. I've been with you guys since shortly after EU2, long before I was ever much of an internet user or forum-goer.

Joining date shouldn't have anything to do with the validity of someone's comments. If anything, I thought paradox had made a move to a new style of business model. Your PR team made a big deal about the move towards dlc style updates and away from the old style where customers would be forced to buy the latest version in order to receive bug fixes and usability tweaks that you mentioned was a large part of NA.

This relatively minor tweak of a checkbox (much like the auto-invite-to-plot button in CK2) seems like something that has been designed as an improvement but that the company has decided to withhold for some reason. I fail to see the reasoning.
 
Last edited:

SBolshevik

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*nods in solemn agreement*
*nods as well*
One could even say we could have a Yugoslavian and Yuzhnoslavian formable nation! :D
Their plans (in Serbia, anyways) were created just 28 years after the game ends. :p
 

Musthavename

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NA was Napoleons Ambition.. the first expansion to Eu3, which was mostly interface fixes, and is still one of our most popular expansions we ever made.. But then I realised that most people in this thread joined the forum a long time after 2007.

As someone who came into the game with In Nomine, I think it's just that people have moved on from then. Before, the model was very much that patch support stopped and an expansion would revive it, so offering improvements in an expansion was giving people fixes they were otherwise never going to get. The current DLC model of releasing patches steadily and enabling people to pick and choose which DLCs they want means that these sort of micromanagement features are things people feel should be part of the patching process and not the DLC.
 

Knut Skallagrim

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NA was Napoleons Ambition.. the first expansion to Eu3, which was mostly interface fixes, and is still one of our most popular expansions we ever made.. But then I realised that most people in this thread joined the forum a long time after 2007.


This is why i directly bought the "complete" pack when it came out, as i've skipped the first version of eu3 because honestly i still liked eu2. And actually i recall NA got way more improvements than just the UI http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?336637-What-does-NA-add-Find-out
 

Maximonium

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Lots of new people here that just don't seem to realise that this is the way we have always been. We're human beings, not drones.


Anyway, I'm making the poll now so you guys can decide.

Lots of people here seem to realize that charging a paid slight tweak to an otherwise tedious and bad mechanic is outright EA, you know, something game devs should strive to never be. What you fail to realize is all those constructive posts pointing that out, and the weak logic you seem so keen to defend with your passive-aggressive attitude. Something tells me you made the choice Johan, and now that people are pointing how it was a dumb one, you're defending it because you're embarrassed but unwilling to just admit you're wrong.

Now cue the warning/short ban I'll surely catch.
 

Charles555nc

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Since it looks like Johan is paying attention and since I certainly appreciate someone who speaks honestly (and not a robotic PR drone) I would like say that I do think that the papacy fix seems to be an odd place to draw a line in the sand about not handing out what seems like a fix...but its more of a "classyness" issue than a real game breaker.

I will be expecting more and better from wealth of nations.
1. I want the ai to be a danger. If it cant be fixed up to be intelligent I would buy a AI focused DLC to make it so.
2. I want MP buildings to be slightly higher benefit to cost ratio.
3. I expect the AI to be able to intelligently use the new features that are slowly being released in the dev diaries.
4. I'd like almost every religion (eastern asia and indian particularly) to get some kind of overhaul. Im happy about the indian religious changes proposed.
5. The tech penalty for western countries is way too high. Maybe a 5% reduction on non western tech penalties? Or a slight buff to the troops of non western countries
6. Ai needs to stop obsessing on naval and quantity ideas. Quantity needs to be buffed up a bit. Combat width and/or attrition reduction comes to mind.
7. Ideas in general need some rebalancing. Along with advisor benefits...-3 revolt risk is awesome, whereas +1 prestigue per year is absolutely terrible.
8. Be able to lower the tax rate on a province to convert it easier. I would mind giving a province a 5-10 year tax free break, If I could just convert the dang thing.
9. More ai loyalty to countries that help them...maybe Ai should be aware of which countries won how many battles against its foes. Some players complain that they save a country, just to get rivaled by them right afterwards.
10. Dont scale event costs based on yearly income, have a hard limit at some point. Also, more events!

I started paradox games with HOI 1 and HOI 2. Then i stopped playing after getting HOI 3 which was imo, an organizational, busy work, mess. Then I got europa 4 because a friend said he played it and it was fun. A little bummed about how dumbed down it is in its current form...but it IS a work in progress.
 

Konair0s

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NA was Napoleons Ambition.. the first expansion to Eu3, which was mostly interface fixes, and is still one of our most popular expansions we ever made.. But then I realised that most people in this thread joined the forum a long time after 2007.

I had all EU3 before joined the forum, just they were from a localizer so re-bought them from Steam.

My point about is that it is because of the policy shift. Back in times patches were mostly considered as fixing and balance improvements, and only extensions bringed really new things, even such small as interface improvements. With your new post-CKII DLC policy it was shown that you can easily fix/add things in patches rather than pack everything in big extensions (like HoD and its interface improvements).

So, I think by many the old-style extensions were considered as "packs" of things, and now there is autoupdate, fast internets and various items which can be shipped seamlessly.

Like, in the old case it would be "cool, it is nice that they improved it in this extension", but in the new one it is "wtf they can not deliver so needed improvement just in a patch?".
 

TheMeInTeam

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1. I want the ai to be a danger. If it cant be fixed up to be intelligent I would buy a AI focused DLC to make it so.

AI improvements fall into HARD diminishing returns from a cost standpoint and start running afoul of basic game performance; functionally you'd add potentially hours of slowed time to get a comparatively modest AI improvement that you can still walk over. Everyone wants good AI, but there's a true constraint here not unique to EU IV.

2. I want MP buildings to be slightly higher benefit to cost ratio.

The problem with this is that they're already better than most think they are. Right now, tech > ideas > buildings. However, buildings aren't *much* worse. You can easily raise manpower by well over 100k in Africa with buildings alone for example, or drastically improve your income.

Considering they require no commitment prior to building them unlike ideas, they should be weaker. If you make them significantly stronger than now, you throw balance in a bad way.

4. I'd like almost every religion (eastern asia and indian particularly) to get some kind of overhaul. Im happy about the indian religious changes proposed.

Me too, but I'd settle for anything aside from heretic tolerance so that Eastern are not actively penalized...or simply making heretic tolerance less bad.

5. The tech penalty for western countries is way too high. Maybe a 5% reduction on non western tech penalties? Or a slight buff to the troops of non western countries

They really just need to pull monarch point penalties and let other tech groups get better units at 26/29/30.

6. Ai needs to stop obsessing on naval and quantity ideas. Quantity needs to be buffed up a bit. Combat width and/or attrition reduction comes to mind.

They've confirmed a quantity buff AFAIK. Also, AI ideas are pure scripted, so it's not a hard change. That said, naval is quite good even if the AI doesn't use it to its potential.

9. More ai loyalty to countries that help them...maybe Ai should be aware of which countries won how many battles against its foes. Some players complain that they save a country, just to get rivaled by them right afterwards.

They're re-doing the rival system, hopefully that stops crap like Makassar rivaling Tuscany (that is only in Italy), Fox rivaling Malaya, or Assam breaking their only alliance to rival MK despite the latter having 500 regiments to their 20.

10. Dont scale event costs based on yearly income, have a hard limit at some point. Also, more events!

Too many events are strategically void. If they're going to add more, we need to avoid adding more of such events.
 

Tufto

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Much as it usually irritates me when people attack Paradox's DLC decisions and have an absurd sense of self-entitlement, I must admit that including the auto-click-cardinal feature in the DLC is a little odd.

Otherwise, though, an excellent DD; has entirely motivated me to buy the expansion, the new mechanics look superb.
 

Heatth

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This is the first time I've been truly disappointed with Paradox. I usually defend, or at last understand, most of the DLC decisions so far. But making the auto-click cardinal a DLC feature is just indefensible to me. As many others have already said, this is not a new feature. It is a fix to a UI problem. An anti-frustration measure. The idea you should charge extra for those is just outstanding. As it also been commented before, it is like preventing manual army pathing with the SHIFT key but allowing it if you buy an unrelated DLC. Sure, you can still manually path your army if you micromanage, following them day by day, but that would be just boring, frustrating and ultimately a bad design.

The most confusing thing is I am not sure why Paradox wouldn't want such UI fix to be in the base game. One of the core concepts of EUIV compared to its predecessor is a more streamlined experience, with clearer UI and more transparent mechanics, so to make it more associable to new players, without losing the complexity. Well, new players probably will only have the base game at the start. Isn't it preferable they have the most streamlined experience possible? So they can be engaged enough in the game to the point of buying new content for it? A micromanaging heavy feature such as the papacy goes contrary to that goal.

PS:Uh, I guess I should have read more on this thread (or this forum) before posting. Okay, [this thread/URL] made my opinion on the subject kinda moot. In my defense, I had read up to page 10 when I posted here, so I honestly thought I had enough information to make my comment. Guess I was wrong.

My point still stand, though. I am still greatly disappointed Paradox even thought such decision was a good idea. Glad to see they are willing still to listen the fans, though.
 
Last edited:

Peanutcat

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Papacy
And finally, as a little extra to those who buy Wealth of Nations, you will now be able to automate cardinal influence, by using a checkbox next to each cardinal. With that checked the game will automatically assign enough influence to selected cardinals to keep your guy ahead in the competition. This is mostly to avoid the busy work of fighting to add +5 here and there to keep France out of the Throne of Peter.

That’s it for this week. Next week, we will talk a bit about the diplomatic additions that come with Wealth of Nations.

Yes! Thank you!