Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations – Dev diary 3: Naval Improvement

TheeLord

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Love the blockade percentage concept! Good work

Should be an option for ships to automatically return to port if they are taking attrition and less than 25% health left or something. Lost my entire fleet the other day cause I was too busy in war and didn't realize my ships were taking so much attrition where they were.
 
Last edited:

londoner247

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Trade patrol behaviours
Personally I hate when you find yourself at war with a bigger naval power and they quickly sink your trade fleets. As a free part of the expansion we are adding the option of setting your trade fleets to automatically return to port at the outbreak of war. After the war is over though, they will return to whatever they were doing at the start of the war. Since its an option, you have a choice to make, is your trade-fleets strong enough to fight of possible attackers or should they always hide at the outbreak of hostilities.

How does this work in practice? Will the trade fleet be immune from attacks whilst travelling to safety or will you have to manually dock before the outbreak of war to be certain of protection?

Immunity from attack seems sensible if I start the war because it just avoids some unnecessary micro-management but it doesn't seem so fair in a defensive war because it would mean that my attacker doesn't get the benefit of the element of surprise.
 

krelian

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That last bit... soooo useful...

Although I'll still end up losing half my trade fleets because they happened to be on the same tile as an enemy fleet when declaring war. ><

Maybe this will be impossible to code.... but is there anything that can be done to stop the instant combat in open seas on day one of war declaration? This is pretty easy to abuse. Opponent has 60 combat ships, but at peace usually spread out in at least two or three fleets, you take your 20-30 ship fleet and sync to have it in the same sea zone, declare war, instant battle with superior ods, sink 30-50% of the enemy navy, hide in port, repair, now you have naval superiority.

It just feels odd that your units in the sea know instantly of a declaration of war. I guess you could say the same about land armies, but with state borders and the black flag system for land units, you can't really ambush enemy armies and defeat them in detail the way you can do with fleets.

Maybe have a black flag on sea units for 7-14 days after declaration of war? I can see how that would create new problems though.
 

Atlanteax

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How does blockading work when you have a sea zone which has 3 enemy ports: first is 6 base tax, second is 3 base tax, third is 1 base tax; while you have say 3 blockade points from your ships. Does it mean that province two and three are fully blocked while the 6 base tax province has no blockade effect? Or do I need ships worth 10 blockade points to blockade the provinces since that's the base tax of enemy provinces bordering the sea zone.

Great question...
 

Vishaing

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That was it for this week, next week I’m planning to write a bit about Trade Companies.
Ah good, just one more week before I'm incredibly disappointed by how much of Trade Companies has been hard-coded to the point of worthlessness and how inflexible the entire system is in general.

P.S. I second everyone else's criticisms of Privateers. You should have some way of attacking them without War, either automatically, or via a "Hunt Privateers" action.
 

Labrynian Rebel

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Maybe you can attack another country's privateers with your own privateers without a war?
 

aragonFTW

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Not sure about the blockade changes - will penalize smaller nations' weight at punching to the expense of countries that can already afford massive fleets - but the rest sounds good.
 

londoner247

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P.S. I second everyone else's criticisms of Privateers. You should have some way of attacking them without War, either automatically, or via a "Hunt Privateers" action.

Whilst I have seen people jumping to this conclusion, I have not seen Paradox saying this clearly.

My *guess* is that a fleet on a Privateer mission can be attacked by any other country (possibly even by your own subjects) because the fleet is flying the Jolly Roger. If the fleet is attacked and defeated then the identity of the sponsor (the player) is revealed and there is also a chance (similar to revolt risk) every month that the mission goes on that one or more of the nations with power in the affected Trade Node will discover your identity. If that happens, by either method, then the nations that learn about you get the CB.

As I say, this is just my guess but I think there is just as much chance of my guess being right as there is about everyone's rage at the mechanic being right. We just have to wait for Paradox to clarify.
 

PeterCorless

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Paradox designers, PLEASE READ.

The way I would have preferred to see these work is as follows:

1) Privateers are "mercenary" ships. You hire them (officially described as "granting a letter of marque"), though at a discount compared to fielding your own ships. You pay upkeep. Like mercenaries, there are limits to how many are available at any one time.
2) If at war, they will fight against any hostile opponent, and can combine with your forces (though see below for leadership).
3) If at peace, they cannot combine with your normal navy. Instead, you can assign what specific nations you want privateers to attack, like setting a rival. You can have privateer missions against multiple opponents (though each mission should have a nominal cost; say, 10 Dip). Privateers will only enter combat with forces of that opponent's nation, plus any of their vassals or colonial nations.
4) Once you hire privateers and set a mission against a country, that nation gains the Trade Dispute CB against you. Removing a nation from the privateering list immediately loses the Trade Dispute CB.
5) You can assign privateers to patrol, and they can blockade ports, but not protect trade (you can't get money from them).
6) Privateers can base from any friendly or neutral port, so long as that nation is not hostile or a rival to your country.
7) Ships captured in battle by privateers turn into additional privateers.
8) Admirals and explorers cannot be assigned to an all-privateer force.
9) Privateers have an inherent modest leadership value (1-1-3-1) which is only used if they are in an all-privateer force.

Also, privateers were not simply lawless, stateless "pirates." They had letters of marque, which granted them the right to attack another nation's ships on behalf of some other sovereign nation. This was to ensure that, in part, if captured by an opposing nation, they would not be hung as pirates.

They often just flew the flag, or a modified flag, of the nation that hired them:

17th and 18th century colonial governors usually required privateers to fly a specific version of the British flag, the 1606 Union Jack with a white crest in the middle, also distinguishing them from naval vessels.[10] Before this time, British privateers such as Sir Henry Morgan sailed under English colours.[6]
(Source: Wikipedia, Jolly Roger)

The problem with hiring privateers is -- what do they do when the war is over? That is why you had such an increase in piracy after the War of the Spanish Succession (1714). So I would suggest that, after you dismiss privateers, some percentage of them may turn to pirate ships, out of control of the player who hired them. They might even get dismissed in one province, and show up a few zones distant and some days or months afterwards. (Increase the spawn rate of pirates within "x" sea zones for "n" months, even in places that have been "patrolled.")
 

ARC Starscream

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Interesting, can anyone hire privateers? or will it be tech based, or will the type of privateers be tech based? just wondering because I got to thinking about the Natives and the Sub saharan techs
 

Olligarchy

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A bit apprehensive about the blockade system... naval superiority is already such a secondary or even tertiary concern that nerfing blockading even further will just take away any point in building anything, but trade ships and transports. Can you get a bit more into the mechanics of blockades? Will warscore be higher due to higher difficulty and cost of maintaining blockade? Will blockade hit your enemy's economy harder? If I go through the trouble of blockading a nation like Great Britain with no land "trade routes" then shouldn't their economy be especially devastated?

Also, how do privateers on the "hunt" react when confronted by the nations they are raiding warships?
 

milt

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Detach Obsolete Ships
Another one of the small free features that makes life as an EU4 player a bit easier is the Detach Obsolete Ships button. It is active on fleets where you have ships that are older than the newest model and if you click it, said ships will separate into a new fleet for easy scrapping.
View attachment 105207

Excited about this expansion. But I'd prefer if the ship upgrade process could be more automated. My current process for making this less tedious makes the detached obsolete button less needed already, though still greatly appreciated! Once large I simply build and destroy all my trade fleets in groups of 30/50, and never combine old with new, unless a war breaks out.

This is possibly my lest favorite part of the game, especially when you are the Netherlands or Portugal, with few home coastal provinces to build ships with.
 
Last edited:

PeterCorless

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My *guess* is that a fleet on a Privateer mission can be attacked by any other country (possibly even by your own subjects) because the fleet is flying the Jolly Roger.

As I pointed out, that is a common misconception of privateers. A privateer had a Letter of Marque (also known as a Letter of Marque and Reprisal) from a sponsoring country, stating what nations his targets were supposed to be (ex: attack Dutch ships, or attack French and Spanish ships, etc.)

That letter protected the privateer from the accusation of piratical lawlessness. He was acting as an agent of the state. It also stipulated how much, if any, of the loot he captured he was supposed to turn over to the sponsoring state.

But again, THEY ARE NOT PIRATES.

I have no idea why Paradox would go off into the weeds on this one. There are plenty of historical examples of how privateers actually worked.

The War of 1812 was a primary example of this in U.S. history, because, after the American Revolution, the Continental Navy was very, very small. The Colonies had relied upon the British Navy for protection since their inception. Now, on their own as a nation, with a pitifully small standing navy -- a few heavy frigates, and a few brigs and sloops of war, about 23 ships in total -- the Congress turned to daring captains of the merchant marine fleet. It authorized the hiring of privateers to wreck havoc on British trade on the open seas and authorized over 500 privateers!

It just makes my stomach turn when people conflate "privateer" and "pirate." Again, it is possible that a privateer might turn to piracy when a war is over, but more likely they might just simply go back to being a merchantman again.

The biggest problem with actually representing some of this in game is that EUIV doesn't have brigs, brigantines, schooners and sloops in the game; that's really what you'd be talking about. In the Med, for the Barbary pirates, galleases and other oared vessels are fine for piracy (technically, they really should be using galliots or fusta).
 

londoner247

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As I pointed out, that is a common misconception of privateers. A privateer had a Letter of Marque (also known as a Letter of Marque and Reprisal) from a sponsoring country, stating what nations his targets were supposed to be (ex: attack Dutch ships, or attack French and Spanish ships, etc.)

... snip ....

Let's not go off topic here into a debate about what is or is not piracy. All I will say is that the Letter of Marque only protected Privateers from being treated as pirates by their sponsoring nation but would be of no protection at all against their targets who would treat them as captured criminals and not as prisoners of war.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Let's not go off topic here into a debate about what is or is not piracy. All I will say is that the Letter of Marque only protected Privateers from being treated as pirates by their sponsoring nation but would be of no protection at all against their targets who would treat them as captured criminals and not as prisoners of war.

I suppose having people fire cannons at you to kill you and take your stuff only leaves room for minimal interest as to why they're doing so.
 

unmerged(603871)

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Hey Paradox, can you add an option to tell trade ships to merge into a single stack if they're patrolling the same node? Sort of like the "attach" option that armies currently have. It's cumbersome adding to a new stack because you have to stick your new ships in a seazone and wait for your current fleet to enter it so you can merge them, or else override their patrolling behavior to bring them to where your new ships are, and then send them back patrolling again. It's just one of those little things that would make gameplay a lot slicker.
 

Dr. B

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Wow this reminds me of the pretty cool Captain Philips movie with Tom Hanks. It is not the size of the pirate "ship" that matters but heir dedication...