Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations - Dev Diary 10: Balance Changes

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Balesir

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Not in EU4's timeframe, napoleonic wars still fought by armies of nearly the same size. It was really only in mass mobilization of WW1 the russian steamroller really took shape.
Earlier in EU's timeframe, perhaps, but Napoleon raised a Grand Armee three times the size of anything he had commanded before to invade Russia in 1812 because of the huge size and manpower of the country. The battle of Borodino was the first of a succession of multi-day battles that became the norm due to the increase in army sizes in the campaigns of 1812-1815.

If Russia's army was limited in size, in the Napoleonic era, it seems to have been due to a lack of equipment and monetary resources, rather then manpower. As it was, cossacks and opolchenie militia used obsolete or personal equipment. Some of the opolchenie were armed with pikes, rather than firearms - they made up in stoicism, numbers and morale what they lacked in equipment and training.

On the changes for the patch, I like what I read. As others have said, tying Admin. bonuses more to ideas and (especially) decisions would be good - even if those decisions were technology level enabled...
 

Giacomo1405

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Is there a point to westernising now if the units don't get the relevant upgrades, aside from cheaper monarch point tech level upgrades.

westernisation should never happen... it's better with everybody staying true to their cultural tech-group... much more flavor...
 

Sir Iain

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Of course there's a point! Tech penalties and the penalty on monarch point gain.

Westernizing as the New World Nations or Sub-Saharan will still be necessary to survive. Maybe it will be possible to hold the line as an Indian or Chinese Empire. That's good!
 

Thrake

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I always westernized, so no, I don't.

That's the difference that stacks up with the following bonuses: unit combat ability (Russia has 0), morale (again 0), discipline (0 yet again). Discipline now affects your own casualities, so it's not nerfed.

I don't understand why there are still some proponents of the idea that there should be a whopping ONE military-oriented country in the game, that relies *entirely* on numbers, and that country being Russia, not Ming or some Hordes. Mind-boggling stuff!

Russia has one of the strongest NI set for land nation, so what's wrong? Btw, hordes are roughly on par with Russia on quantity... +50% force limits, +75% national manpower, +25% manpower recovery and -20% maintenance. Difference is that Russia has less manpower recovery (10%) and -30% infantry cost instead of -20% maintenance.
 

Haccoude

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Forgot something in the last post, if discipline affects both defense and offense of both infantry and cavalry, and "x" Power only affects the offense of either cavalry or infantry, can we get a "x" Protection that only increases the defense of either cavalry or infantry?

Also, can the percentage of acceptable cavalry be tied to unit group, rather than tech group? The inability to effectively use armies with more than 50% cavalry is not an integral part of advancing technology as fast as the Western nations.
 

DrLulz

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These changes look really really really good. Highlights include the change to religious tolerance - which is no longer a bad thing, more interactive Aggressive Expansion, and better diplomacy. I'm really psyched for these features.

EDIT: Can we have a rough estimate of the release-date pretty please?
 

Ekusas

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Okay al,lright, okay alrighto, First post and all, but this actually scares me quite a bit, the whole diploannexing thing.
Please correct me if im mistaken, but as i read it, its basically to prevent vassal feeding to then intregrate them? Allright, fair deal, i find the entire conquest system to be utterly disgusting already, and making the vassalfeeding system equally so, might just kill the game for me outright, but that aside - What about PU's? Will i also be required to pay 5k diplopoints in order to integrate Frace when i win the hyw? Also, how on earth does it actually work? Does it work like the current westenization porcess? Example tiem, : I want to integrate Byzantium in a Kebabgame, they have 3 provinces worth 7 total basetax, 7*15= 105 points, but obviously, you cant divide 7 with 3, so all provinces are equally converted, is it just a bar that fills, and all will be annexed together? Or does provinces become yours slowly overtime? - Obviously first one makes the most sense.

Considering its 15 points "if you have it", is it the point on that system to make diploannexing extra penalising for non EU nations whom recieve a negative monarch point penalty? Is that to encourage westenization even further, or just simply an oversight in the design?

Also, im guessing theres no way to reduce the diplocost og annexing your vassals? Making coring better if (and you alwas should in a conquest game) take admin as an idea group ? Is that an intended buff to an already strong idea group? Or just an oversight?
With coring always taking the same amount of time nomatter your sieze, i just dont even remotely see the point in having vassals, specially not when you can reduce the coring cost quite drasticly thorugh modifiers. Not having vassals means you wont be sporting the need for massive diploralations in order to maintain allainces + vassals, as you do now without tanking diplopoints. Is that your way of nurfing diplomatic ideas or just somewhat if an unintented nurf?
Another thing, seeing how vassals and therefor diploannexing is limited by somewhat arbitrary limits we've come to accept (Cores, own cores, previous claims) as to how big said vassal could possibly grow, would it make sense to simply remove those limits? Vassal feeding without limits like it was 1999 (cant remember wich patch... 1.3?) still costs the same amount of diplo points, it just basically makes you aply to choose, admin or diplo - Is that something to consider? Or is this just an outright nurf to diplo annexing vassals?

Another thing, with the introduction of Aggressive Eff, the amount of land you can conquer increases quite drasticly lategame, is that intented to be such a hassle with coring+nationalism? Say you gain 10 new provinces instead of the current 3-4, that increases said revolt by a staggering 30%, wich cant be combatted in an way due to how nationalism works. Does that make the entire Aggresive eff effectually just a AE reduction tool rather than an actual conquest buff? Was that the point? If so, why not just reduce AE from provinces gained? On that note, why does it give equal amounts on AE when you take 1 province from 100 province russia, as it does from 2 province Denmark? Making the change for Vassaling, but not conquest? Seems way too random :)

/endrant
 

ErikHeinrichs

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When you start to diplomatically annex a country, doing so will have a ticking cost of up to 15 diplomatic points per month. When your point expenditure reaches the country's total base tax * 15 (so a base tax 10 country would take 150 diplomatic points to annex), the country will be annexed. This means that diplomatic annexation is no longer a 'free' alternative to outright conquest, but uses a different kind of points and allows you avoid all the nationalist problems you get from just taking the provinces.

Have you guys even done any testing to see if you are even able to do a WC with your "fixes" regarding diplo points costs "here and there"?
 

PiriReis

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westernisation should never happen... it's better with everybody staying true to their cultural tech-group... much more flavor...

If there wouldnt be any arbitrary limitations or tech penalties then it wouldn't be a problem. Otherwise westernization is a (most of the time) must from a gameplay point of view.
 

Avernite

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Have you guys even done any testing to see if you are even able to do a WC with your "fixes" regarding diplo points costs "here and there"?

I hardly think 'this change prevents WCs from occuring' would be classed as a bad thing by the developers.
 

saegoto

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I like all the changes. Good that diplo annex is no longer free. Anyway I have a question.

@ Wizz

When your point expenditure reaches the country's total base tax * 15 (so a base tax 10 country would take 150 diplomatic points to annex), the country will be annexed.

Does it mean that diplo annex of Auvergne with 3 base tax cost 45 dip points and takes ONLY 3 months? Isn't it too short? The importance of diplomats will fall.
 

Wizzington

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The clock shows penalty/bonus for ahead of time / neighbour bonus. So if you're 1 year ahead of time and have a neighbour bonus of 2%, it will show that the tech is 8% more expensive. Purely an interface improvement.
 

Giacomo1405

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Considering they outright stated that the goal of the game is conquest ... and nothing else ...

actually, in one of the last videos they said that the goal of the game is "Empire Building", and specified building different type of empires (Wide Empires forged with conquest, Colonial Empires, Trade Empires, Religious Empires)... and that the goal of the game is not WC...