Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations - Dev Diary 10: Balance Changes

Wizzington

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Great changes but how will the new units for non western nations look like roughly, all gunpowder units at lvl12 or at sooner levels for tech-groups with a malus?

The way it's setup now is that you basically get parity at the same tech level, so Western tech level 12 units will be roughly equivalent to say, Indian tech level 12 units (Indian is actually somewhat better at that stage of the game but it's not a huge difference).
 

MarkS00N

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Protectorates do not give 50% tech discount.
They don't?
So what they do now? Or is that how currently Protectorates work? Because I thought you get 50% tech discount when become a protectorate...

Have you done some change for Protectorates to make them feel at least as useful as vassal? Or feel them more unique in fun way instead of irritating way (I count can't diplo-anex them and they just release themselves once finish westernizing as irritating)...

Getting rid of the tech penalty...
I disagree with that...

EDIT: Ah, the discount is 20%, so there is nothing change there...
Sorry...
 
Last edited:

Five_X

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Getting rid of the tech penalty...

Not to mention the monarch point penalty, for some groups! But I think there should perhaps be an additional bonus to westernizing. Something like unique, tech-group based units that you can only unlock if you've westernized, for example - but not direct copy-pastes of Western units, as it is currently in 1.5.
 

jockedahl

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I absolutely love these changes. They address all the major issues I had with gameplay really.

This has assured me to buy the DLC and every cosmetic pack if those are released alongside it too.

I still think that the overseas distance should be slightly farther than just south tip of italy to Libya. You should keep in mind what states would want to expand in North Africa and have it still not completely unhistorical.
For example Venice and Genoa, it would be really fun if they could have use for provinces there either using the trade company modifier (the mechanic would make sense but events probably not?) or just be given the distance to have them as normal holdings. I played a full Genoa game and they got several Genoese missions for overseas provinces such as Tangiers, Alexandria and Tunis but couldn't really utilize the provinces after taking them. Can't you make the range longer so most mediterranean powers with capitals in the Med-region can use North-African states without overseas penalty?
 
Last edited:

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Love the new changes, especially Administrative Efficiency and diplomatic annexation costs. We have something similar in VeF and I'm glad the idea caught on, it will make integration with the mod a lot easier.
 

MarkS00N

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For example Venice and Genoa, it would be really fun if they could have use for provinces there either using the trade company modifier (the mechanic would make sense but events probably not?) or just be given the distance to have them as normal holdings. I played a full Genoa game and they got several Genoese missions for overseas provinces such as Tangiers, Alexandria and Tunis but couldn't really utilize the provinces after taking them. Can't you make the calculation be based on distance from nearest port or something like that? Or just make the range longer so most mediterranean powers with capitals in the Med-region can use provinces overseas?
With the separation of trade capital and nation capital, I think you could move away your capital to closer region to remove the modifier without making you lost your trade advantage in mid-europe...
Just my thought...
 

No idea

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WOW. Lots and lots of changes (most of them look good). It is going to be like a brave new game. I predict one or more future patches of balancing all the changes.
 

Sun_Wu

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Launch day for Wealth of Nations is coming up fast! But even if you wait to buy it, your current installation of Europa Universalis IV will be greatly changed for free because of a new patch - we hope you’ll find these changes are for the better.

In this, the tenth developers’ diary for Wealth of Nations, we will be looking at the various changes and improvements that we have made to mechanics and balance, all of which will be part of the free 1.6 patch for Europa Universalis IV.
So when will we be able to preorder?
Aggressive Expansion

We have changed how nations gain Aggressive Expansion in 1.6. Previously, vassalizing a nation would give a fixed amount of AE regardless of that nation's size, while taking its provinces would give AE for each province captured. This has been changed to be more consistent; vassalization now gives AE based on the number of provinces held by the country that is vassalized, though the AE gained from vassalizing is still lower than that you would get from conquering. A number of ideas and policies have also gained a new modifier called Aggressive Expansion Impact, which lowers the amount of AE you take from signing peace deals. Additionally, breaking a truce now always gives a large amount of AE, even towards your allies.
I look forward to this
Units

Unit types have received a comprehensive rebalance, with almost every single land unit in the game having their stats changed. The overall number of 'pips' on units were cut in half to reduce the role played by technology in land battles. Major rebalancing was also done of the different technology groups, who are now almost entirely equal in overall strength, but 'peak' at different times. For example, the Ottomans receive very strong early game units, but aren't as good in the late game, while Western units start out poor but excel in the late game. Progression through units is now much less uneven for many of the slower tech groups, and many units that were under- or overpowered for their tech level have been adjusted. The African and Native American tech groups also received a number of new cavalry units.

As a part of these changes, nations that Westernize will no longer get Western units, retaining their old technology group's units instead.
Jolly good.
Conquest & Rebels

Rebels have been made into much more of a threat in 1.6, spawning in greater numbers and with better army composition. Newly conquered territories will now also be a source of turmoil, as Nationalism will remain for 30 years even if you core the province. Since this makes traditional conquest harder and diplomatic annexation even more attractive than it already was, we are also introducing a cost to diplomatic annexation.

When you start to diplomatically annex a country, doing so will have a ticking cost of up to 15 diplomatic points per month. When your point expenditure reaches the country's total base tax * 15 (so a base tax 10 country would take 150 diplomatic points to annex), the country will be annexed. This means that diplomatic annexation is no longer a 'free' alternative to outright conquest, but uses a different kind of points and allows you avoid all the nationalist problems you get from just taking the provinces.
The coefficient is moddable, right? Also how does it determine how many points to take?
Technology

We've noticed that the early colonizers such as Castile and Portugal often get a massive advantage just from being early, quickly locking up large parts of the new world before nations like England, the Netherlands or France can reach it. To slow down early colonization and give the later colonizers a chance to compete, we've tied the base settler growth to diplomatic technology. At level 3, this base growth is only +25 (compared to +50 previously), but increases at tech levels 10, 15, 22, 26 and 32 up to a total of +150, allowing for rapid colonization in the later stages of the game.

Another addition to technology is Administrative Efficiency, a new country-wide bonus that is unlocked at administrative technology level 23 and increases at 26 and 29, up to a total of 75%. Administrative Efficiency directly reduces the impact of province base tax on overextension and warscore cost, allowing for much larger territories to be conquered at once. Additionally the scaling of core time from country size has been removed - all nations now core provinces at the same speed regardless of size (but it is still affected by factors such as culture, religion, having a claim and so on). This creates a more interesting late game, as the large nations that have formed by then are now able to score decisive victories over their rivals instead of fighting 10-year wars over a few border provinces.

Finally, the neighbour bonus multiplier to technology has been reduced from 5% to 2%, meaning that it is less of an ideal strategy to hold off increasing your technology level so that you can stack up neighbour bonuses and more cheaply advance.

View attachment 108250
Does +75% mean it reduces the OE by 75% or is it something else?
Religion

In dev diary 5, we talked about the changes we made to the Reformed and Hindu eligions but failed to mention a change to the way Religious Unity works. Up until now, Religious Unity has simply been a factor of how many provinces of your national religion you own, making tolerance rather useless since having lots of tolerated heretics and heathens would tank your Religious Unity anyway. We have now connected Religious Unity to how tolerant you are towards the religions in your provinces.

The effects of tolerance on religious unity per province are as follows:
- Religion you have negative tolerance towards: 0% unity value
- Religion you have 0 tolerance towards: 25% unity value
- Religion you have 1 tolerance towards: 50% unity value
- Religion you have 2 tolerance towards: 75% unity value
- Religion you have 3+ tolerance towards: 100% unity value

Provinces of your national religion always contribute 100% unity, regardless of your tolerance towards your own faith. This means that if half your country is your national faith, and the other half is a faith you have +1 tolerance towards, your total Religious Unity will be 75% instead of 50%. Additionally, the events that fire when you have positive tolerance of heretics which convert your provinces to heretic religions are now far, far less likely to occur.
How moddable is this?
Buildings

As mentioned in Dev Diary 8, the building system has received a comprehensive overhaul, with many buildings having their bonuses reworked. The aim is to make Government buildings more attractive, and clearly define roles for each line of buildings:
- Government: Tax Income & Revolt Risk
- Trade: Trade Power & Income
- Production: Production Income & Cost Reduction
- Military: Manpower & Land Forcelimit
- Naval: Ship Building & Naval Forcelimit
- Forts: Defense & Supply Limit
Clarification is good
AI Improvements

The AI has received its usual slew of improvements, particularly in the areas of naval warfare, trade and budgeting (as well as plenty of bug fixes).

In addition to these general improvements, some work has also been done to make allying with the AI a better experience. First of all, the importance AI places on trust has been increased considerably, with AI nations much less likely to turn on a highly trusted ally. The way you make the AI trust you has also been reworked - it's no longer enough to be allied for a long time, you have to actually fight in their wars and give them things they want in your wars if you want the AI to trust you. If you actively work to help your allies, they will be more likely to stick by you when the going gets tough.

Additionally, a new opinion modifier called 'Wants your provinces' has been added, which scales according to the amount of land you own that the AI would like to own, and with the importance they place on that land. Additionally, the AI is now much less likely to turn hostile against a nation they have a high opinion of, and will never go hostile against a nation they have more than +100 opinion of. This will show you exactly why an AI nation is hostile towards you, and will cause them to behave more logically; an AI nation that likes you a great deal won't break the alliance just because they want a province or two from you, but if they're looking to take everything you own nothing will push that opinion into positive numbers.
This sounds good.
View attachment 108251
Overseas Provinces

If you've ever felt that it is a bit silly that Tangiers is considered a distant overseas province to Castile, we have some good news. The way we calculate overseas provinces has been changed so that provinces within a certain distance from your capital (roughly the distance between Italy and Libya) no longer count as being overseas provinces, allowing you to get the full tax, manpower and forcelimit benefits from those provinces.
Very nice
Goods Produced

We have also overhauled the way that Goods Produced scaled in relation to a province’s base tax. Before 1.6, each province produced a base of 1 + base tax*0.01 goods. So, a 10 base tax province would produce 1.10 goods - only slightly more than a base tax 1 province’s 1.01. This has been changed to a simple base tax * 0.2, meaning that a 10 base tax province will produce 10 times the goods of a base tax 1 province - a much more meaningful difference between a rich and poor province.
I really like this idea, however is it possible for it to be less linear?

As a final bonus, many nations have received tweaks and improvements to their Dynamical Historical Events. We felt that too many DHEs had trigger conditions that are near-impossible to achieve, are set to fire only in tiny windows of time (with a high mean time to happen too), or simply offer choices where one option is clearly superior to the others, removing any real sense of fun in playing out alternate histories. Austria, Ming, the Netherlands and Poland have had their DHEs significantly improved so they will be more frequent and interesting. And, of course, we've even added some new events, too.

View attachment 108252
This I am more fixed about


Shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg
 

jockedahl

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With the separation of trade capital and nation capital, I think you could move away your capital to closer region to remove the modifier without making you lost your trade advantage in mid-europe...
Just my thought...

True, but for RP reasons I'd rather have the range be like Venice -> Alexandria. I don't think that would be too far.
 

Elin

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Lots of good things in this patch.

But i think the new conquest/vassal annexing system worries me. The cost in diplomatic points will become insane in many cases, especially while vassal feeding.
I agree that the AE needed to be fixed between Vassals and conquests but for me the cost will kill all WC attempts.
 

Silversweeeper

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Another addition to technology is Administrative Efficiency, a new country-wide bonus that is unlocked at administrative technology level 23 and increases at 26 and 29, up to a total of 75%. Administrative Efficiency directly reduces the impact of province base tax on overextension and warscore cost, allowing for much larger territories to be conquered at once. Additionally the scaling of core time from country size has been removed - all nations now core provinces at the same speed regardless of size (but it is still affected by factors such as culture, religion, having a claim and so on). This creates a more interesting late game, as the large nations that have formed by then are now able to score decisive victories over their rivals instead of fighting 10-year wars over a few border provinces.

As long as this does not result in Ming joining coalitions against a France eating 99 basetax in Italy at once, this sounds awesome.
 

Wizzington

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Does +75% mean it reduces the OE by 75% or is it something else?

Yes, 75% adm efficiency reduces OE and province warscore costs by 75%.
 

nephilim2k

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Lots of good things in this patch.

But i think the new conquest/vassal annexing system worries me. The cost in diplomatic points will become insane in many cases, especially while vassal feeding.
I agree that the AE needed to be fixed between Vassals and conquests but for me the cost will kill all WC attempts.

You know if you rival a nation, you get a lower diplomatic cost right? This would off set some of the cost, which would help, and I believe they're reducing the cheese tactics used to allow for world conquest.
 

Varesz

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I don't like the diplo annexation change. You are already investing a diplomat fulltime to annex a nation and the process cannot be paused and continued.
Also, penalising somebody who's trying not to waste monarch points is bad idea. If somebody decides to keep his monarch points top, that means he'll have less tech than it's rivals for quite some time, not using Harsh treatment on revolting provinces (therefore he'll use manpower+/gold to suppress rebels) and maybe generals which can easily turn the tide of a battle.
 

Denjell

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There goes my diploannexing france as Netherlands-tactix! I kinda like th change, used to feel lazy when i didnt exploit vassalfeeding. Guess i dont have to anymore
 

jockedahl

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Another idea is to give noble, administrative and merchant republics with capital in the trade nodes of Genoa, Venice and Ragusa the ability to make overseas provinces within a distance of say Genoa -> Azov into trade company provinces. Making them sort of trade outposts instead of full fledged provinces.
 

marmot01

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Oh well, whatever changes in the units/technology, at least they are moddable.

The AI improvements are most welcome, as always.

I say this yet again: Using diplomatic score for a wide range of purposes, from creating a royal marriage with a new partner to researching new ship rigging to diploannexin now, is grossly unrealistic and disbalancing.

BTW early colonizers should get an advantage, otherwise what's the motive to be the first colonizing power?

We felt that too many DHEs had trigger conditions that are near-impossible to achieve, are set to fire only in tiny windows of time (with a high mean time to happen too), or simply offer choices where one option is clearly superior to the others, removing any real sense of fun in playing out alternate histories.

You don't say? And it took only a mere 8 months after game release for this feeling to accumulate.
 

Wizzington

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Early colonizers still get an advantage by virtue of being early, it's just not as large.