Europa Universalis IV to Get Immersion Pack "Third Rome"

Neysha

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Thanks for good news.
3) "Muskovites" in fact never called themselves in this way. It is the term, originating from Poland, and due to the fact of the great mutual love of Russia and Poland... Well, you get the idea.
as far as i know poles refused to call Muscovy Russia until 18th century becouse it would mean they accept russian claims on all of "rus" including ruthenia that was part of PLC
 

Aeroclub

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Just please don't make Muscovy even more OP compared to the other Russian principalities than it already is...1444 was still a time of a major political struggle within Russia, but as it stands now (and even more so with their new ideas that were announced), they can just mop the floor with everybody else within a decade.
 

deserk

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Hope the enhancement to the Orthodox religion also applies to all Orthodox nations. And I'm also very curious as to which country tags are getting their own unit packs
 

CrazyZombie

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as far as i know poles refused to call Muscovy Russia until 18th century becouse it would mean they accept russian claims on all of "rus" including ruthenia that was part of PLC
True. There was "White Rus" - all lands under control of Moscow principality and "Black Rus" - lands, controlled by Poland and Lithuania. Still, question of legitimacy on the claims of the only Rus successor was later solved by Poland - when they started to opress orthodox population in Lithuania. After that Moscow has become the only undoubted leader of all Russian land.
 

skaldfranorden

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True. There was "White Rus" - all lands under control of Moscow principality and "Black Rus" - lands, controlled by Poland and Lithuania. Still, question of legitimacy on the claims of the only Rus successor was later solved by Poland - when they started to opress orthodox population in Lithuania. After that Moscow has become the only undoubted leader of all Russian land.

Well, Belarus is direct translation to ''White Rus'' from Slavic languages to English, maybe a connection? And in game period Luthuania controls most of Belarus....
 

Artess

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Is one of the two unique governments be by any chance for Novgorod? I feel like it's different enough from your average Mediterranean/North German merchant republic to warrant one, but that might be wishful thinking. Or is it just gonna be a big "tsardom" and lesser subject/independent principalities, kinda like Shogunate/Daimyos?
 

Artess

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Well, Belarus is direct translation to ''White Rus'' from Slavic languages to English, maybe a connection? And in game period Luthuania controls most of Belarus....
Originally White Russia was mostly used by the Westerners to refer to various lands, all the way up to Novgorod, but during the game period it was referring to Eastern Lithuanian lands, including modern-day Belarus.
 

DanubianCossak

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Well, Belarus is direct translation to ''White Rus'' from Slavic languages to English, maybe a connection? And in game period Luthuania controls most of Belarus....

In old Slavic language colors were used to indicate directions; white i believe meant north, so as population shifted (from areas around Kiev and modern day Belarus) further north and east (toward modern day Moscow/Novgorod etc) what was north was also changing. So both could be right, just from different time.
 

Haldan

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well that was unexpected
 

tom025

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A new DLC already ?

Russia needed that attention I'm not against that, but dont rush DLC.

Take your time to test it...
 

Neysha

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In old Slavic language colors were used to indicate directions; white i believe meant north, so as population shifted (from areas around Kiev and modern day Belarus) further north and east (toward modern day Moscow/Novgorod etc) what was north was also changing. So both could be right, just from different time.
there's also red rus, modern day eastern poland and western ukraine
 

TheDungen

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NecroGangster

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I'm curious if there is going to be some features and events that will only be enabled if Byzantium falls (Moscow can't be the third Rome if the second is still going), I'm thinking mainly of religious stuff like Russia becoming the "main" orthodox nation, and if so will those events happen to Byzantium instead if they menage to survive as the leader of orthodoxy?

Also will events be dynamic for all Rus' nations? Like for instance if Novgorod is the one to rise to power and unite Russia will Novgorod city become the equivalent to what Moscow was in real life?
 

santali

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In old Slavic language colors were used to indicate directions; white i believe meant north, so as population shifted (from areas around Kiev and modern day Belarus) further north and east (toward modern day Moscow/Novgorod etc) what was north was also changing. So both could be right, just from different time.

That's not Slavic, that's originally Chinese, later adopted by Turks and Mongols. The various colored Rus' names don't appear in Russian until Russians have learned cartography from Westerners. The European cartographers were also not always aware of the meaning of those colours. E.g. the speculating that the terms Black and White Hungary signified the skin tone of their inhabitants.

Moreover one of the earlier European definitions of white Rus include Kiev, which fits neither the conception of northern nor western Rus, being directly east of Red Rus and considering as well that White Rus ended up being south of Black (Neman river) Rus.

All in all deriving the colored names of Rus from the Chinese/Nomadic tradition is baseless at best.
 
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