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Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man Announced

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hirahammad said:
There's already Something Administration, for about 75 power, that gives you no fog of war
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Was called infiltrate administration in EUIII, so it probably still is.
 
Wagonlitz said:
Was called infiltrate administration in EUIII, so it probably still is.
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It is, costs 60 spy power, unlocked at DIP 30.

Yep, DIP 30, not a typo.
 
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Vaximillian said:
It is, costs 60 spy power, unlocked at DIP 30.

Yep, DIP 30, not a typo.
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That seems to suggest you believe DIP 30 isn't a reasonable prerequisite for that spy action. If that is the case, then what is the reasonable prerequisite in your opinion? Just curious :)
 
Chief of Staff said:
That seems to suggest you believe DIP 30 isn't a reasonable prerequisite for that spy action. If that is the case, then what is the reasonable prerequisite in your opinion? Just curious :)
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This may be a mad idea, but perhaps this action could be done against a country which has an identified administration. So it could be if the country has ADM 12 or, and here is the madman idea, if he has the administrative idea group. That or if he has an administrative government and beyond.
 
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Chief of Staff said:
That seems to suggest you believe DIP 30 isn't a reasonable prerequisite for that spy action. If that is the case, then what is the reasonable prerequisite in your opinion? Just curious :)
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Not him but anything else than literal end game. This action is something that, if it was put in a good dip tech, would discourage people from using the ledger because they could send a spy and learn how many soldiers their enemies have and where. Putting this at 30th technology makes no sense gameplaywise.
 
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Frederic III said:
This may be a mad idea, but perhaps this action could be done against a country which has an identified administration. So it could be if the country has ADM 12 or, and here is the madman idea, if he has the administrative idea group. That or if he has an administrative government and beyond.
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Interesting idea. :)

Martin_Mortyry said:
Not him but anything else than literal end game. This action is something that, if it was put in a good dip tech, would discourage people from using the ledger because they could send a spy and learn how many soldiers their enemies have and where. Putting this at 30th technology makes no sense gameplaywise.
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I just now realized that DIP 30 is really late. I haven't played EU4 for well over a month since I was occupied playing other games so I forgot about that. :) The EU4 wiki said that Tech 30 has the given year of 1805. Perhaps Paradox believed that such spy action required more sophisticated intelligence gathering network which would be a pretty late game thing. But I dunno.

But Frederic III's suggestion regarding restricting spy actions only to against nations with sufficiently advanced ADM tech could potentially help to provide a rationale for reducing its DIP tech requirement and possibly couple that with ADM tech requirement for the nation using spy action as well, since it is also conceivable that such spy action still requires a sophisticated intelligence-gathering network and which would require the spying nation to have sufficient administration to oversee it as well.

In sum, the following suggestion by Frederic III, modified by my suggestion is:
  1. Any nations wishing to use Infiltrate Administration must research a DIP tech lower than 30 (the value is open to suggestion;, maybe somewhere between 12 and 30?) and also have ADM tech 12 or higher.
  2. Infiltrate Administration spy action can only be used against any nations with ADM tech equal to 12 or higher.
 
Chief of Staff said:
Interesting idea. :)

  1. Infiltrate Administration spy action can only be used against any nations with ADM tech equal to 12 or higher.
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Maybe the infiltrated country should have lower administrative tech? That would make sense as well.
 
Martin_Mortyry said:
Maybe the infiltrated country should have lower administrative tech? That would make sense as well.
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I believe the ADM tech 12 was chosen specifically because that one is titled "Early Modern Administration" in the in-game text. But I dunno. However, perhaps if target nation has higher ADM tech than your own nation, then that might increase the chance of failure for the Infiltrate Administration spy action, obviously with fallout as the consequence. Your proposal makes sense in a way because with higher ADM tech, the target nation would likely have higher spy defense or counter-intelligence as we call it today.

Keep in mind that this is all in early modern era. There is no modern intelligence agency or counter-intelligence agency during this time-frame. All of that comes later in the time frame corresponding to Victoria II and beyond. I believe the first modern intelligence agency was established in 1850s in the United Kingdom, a precursor to MI6 (which handles foreign intelligence as opposed to MI5 which is responsible for counter-intelligence; for the equivalent in the U.S., CIA handles foreign intelligence while FBI handles counter-intelligence).
 
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