Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica - Dev diary 1: Merchant Republics/National Focus

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josh127

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Under your system, a nation needs to be 6 techs behind before an (-.01*N)^2 system beats (-.05*N), so 78 years behind time. That basically leaves it for Native/Sub-Saharan who westernize and ignores Muslim/Indian/Chinese tech groups that run into Western countries and need to try not to fall that far behind.
Or for someone intentionally skipping tech to focus on other uses of MP. This is the place you are truly getting a reward since the other uses of the MP are offsetting the opportunity costs of taking the tech.

Why I'm sitting here constantly speaking out against buffing something I use regularly is beyond me.
 

grandadmiralbob

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Military Access costs for the receiver, not giver.

But when you fight and win a war, and you force them to give you trade power, you still have to pay for an extra diplo relation. That's what I think he's saying and I do agree. Also, if I have a 5-5-5 and I national focus on say, military, is he now a 4-4-7 leader?
 

Konair0s

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In addition to these changes, we’ve also made life a little easier for some of the slower tech groups by removing all monarch power penalties associated with technology groups, so Chinese nations will no longer gain -1 to all monarch powers, African nations will no longer gain -2, and so on.

Heh, that's nice.

I am wondering where are all these guys who talked "ROTW is for conquest only!!!!1" and "Hurr-durr EUROPA!!!111 Universalis".
 

User4035

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Gotta say I hate the flip flopping of game mechanics.

5% behind tech bonus, then 2% bonus, now 5% bonus.

If I want to play the beta I will play the beta.
I'm paying(or would like to pay) for a finished product. I haven't bought any DLC because of this flip flopping you guys do with untested releases.


Oh, you guys should also rename the Wealth of Nations DLC to Religions of Nations. And then rename this mini dlc to wealth of nations. Since the trade post and backing factions is more unique to merchant republics then giving production and manpower to non-merchant republics.


Paradox, you need someone who's job it is to plan your product releases to ensure quality control. You guys are nice and respond to your customers which is great for your image, but I'm sitll waiting to spend my money on DLC.
I didn't buy the American Dream and thank goodness because with your flip flopping it doesn't work.
 
Last edited:

TheMeInTeam

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Or rather, you fail to see my point. You think that random = bad. Somehow, but not entirely.

Random is not fundamentally bad. Putting a crucial resource in a strategy game on a relatively infrequent RNG call such that any one incidence of said RNG call can have a glaring impact on the outcome/progression rate is bad.

Part of the neighbor bonus' design is to function as a catch-up mechanic, precisely to offset some of the large advantage conferred by being lucky while someone is simultaneously not lucky. In order to remove that or nerf it, there needs to be reasonable justification for doing so.

Though, in real life, randomness is everywhere. You cross the street; there's RNG god rolling; perhaps you'll stumble for the worse. That's part of life, and you can't deny the fact that, while rulers where not personnally behind the construction of every building in their nation, a bad ruler impacted heavily the efficiency of its nation, because he was a poor decision maker, or because he was only interested in parties and women.

First of all, the game is not real life. If it were, you wouldn't have hive-mind control of a nation for ~400 years.

Second, stumbling is not "random" lol.

Third, poor rulers had a funny tendency to wind up killed quickly, having their effective power curtailed, or otherwise get minimalized in this period. There are some exceptions where some idiot kept power too, but that was far from the only thing that happened. Given that you're playing as a power above the ruler, one guiding the course of a nation's history, it makes sense that you can opt into a risky tradeoff of some variety to steer how the nation deals with a potentially awful ruler. The choice on how to handle it should not be trivial; the game has far too many trivial choices already.

None of this is, however, justification for further nerfing nations that already have a poor ruler in the gameplay sense. They already are unlucky and are already suffering; the neighbor bonus provides *some* regression towards the mean. Some. The existence of random factors is not an effective grounds for argument in altering this from a gameplay standpoint in favor of making the game more luck-based, when it is already arguably ahistorically luck-based given the player's actual role in it.

Why do you need to control everything? What do you effectively and entirely control in real life?

This question is a junk red herring and not worth discussing. I'm arguing from the standpoint of what makes the strategy of the game more engaging or not. Removing the importance of player choice (regardless of RNG presence) does the opposite. When you have a relatively large number of RNG checks across a game, over time player choices still create separation, despite unexpected turns. When the outcome hinges on few, you have a game where the game itself decides who wins; deliberately pushing a strategy title in that direction isn't a defensible position, as you're actively reducing the importance of the game's strategy.

Why I'm sitting here constantly speaking out against buffing something I use regularly is beyond me.

You do wonder what happens if someone...say...culturally annihilates 300 base tax worth of stuff lol.
 

josh127

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But when you fight and win a war, and you force them to give you trade power, you still have to pay for an extra diplo relation. That's what I think he's saying and I do agree. Also, if I have a 5-5-5 and I national focus on say, military, is he now a 4-4-7 leader?
You're looking at it the same way I did at first. The national focus applies to the 3/3/3 base not directly to the ruler. So typically the 5/5/5 ruler brings it up to 8/8/8, with the focus on military it would now be 7/7/10.
 

yahiko

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You don't actually have to eat any penalties to be ahead of time since it's based on whether the next tech would cost extra to buy. It's basically an incentive to stay current in tech rather than drop back a few techs to benefit from neighbour bonus.

Am I the only one thinking that having +20% in production efficiency or +20% in trade efficiency is a bit too much just for being on time in tech?
 

Beagá

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Considering the economy is crap, no.

Through obviously other stuff should be improved to make the AI have more monies.
 

yahiko

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Considering the economy is crap, no.

Through obviously other stuff should be improved to make the AI have more monies.
In solo games, maybe for AIs, even if I'm quite sure I can use this as a European nation to steamroll even more.
But in multiplayer games, this could create serious changes in balance between Western and non-Western nations.
 

Praetorian44

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As a side note for modders, the new factions for Merchant Republics also means that the faction system has been reworked so as to be fully moddable, and factions are now tied to government type rather than country.
This is great news and will make factions actually usable.
 

$ilent_$trider

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You don't actually have to eat any penalties to be ahead of time since it's based on whether the next tech would cost extra to buy. It's basically an incentive to stay current in tech rather than drop back a few techs to benefit from neighbour bonus.

Oh, that's way better than I thought and actually makes total sense. Thanks!

In solo games, maybe for AIs, even if I'm quite sure I can use this as a European nation to steamroll even more.
But in multiplayer games, this could create serious changes in balance between Western and non-Western nations.

I did not understand the issue. Could you clarify?
 

Beagá

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In solo games, maybe for AIs, even if I'm quite sure I can use this as a European nation to steamroll even more.
But in multiplayer games, this could create serious changes in balance between Western and non-Western nations.

Fail to see the issue. The game is about people conquering Ming, not Ming conquering Europe. "oh eurocentrism etc etc" ok but the game is designed around that.
 

yahiko

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I did not understand the issue. Could you clarify?

Simply put, with France for instance, it is very easy to stay on the edge of technology. Meaning, getting +20% in production efficiency and in trade efficiency just because I am on time in tech would help me to WC even more easily than before.

edit: a +5% bonus would probably have been enough as an incentive.
 

josh127

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Simply put, with France for instance, it is very easy to stay on the edge of technology. Meaning, getting +20% in production efficiency and in trade efficiency just because I am on time in tech would help me to WC even more easily than before.

edit: a +5% bonus would probably have been enough as an incentive.
If you're going for WC are you spending all those MP on your tech though? I'm spending them annexing vassals and coring when I conquest.
 

josh127

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It's not a big issue to deal with. Monarch points management.
Then maybe France should get an MP malus. :p
(it's a joke!)
 

James The 1st

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Gotta say I hat the flip flopping of game mechanics.

5% behind tech bonus, then 2% bonus, now 5% bonus.

If I want to play the beta I will play the beta.
I'm paying(or would like to pay) for a finished product. I haven't bought any DLC because of this flip flopping you guys do with untested releases.


Oh, you guys should also rename the Wealth of Nations DLC to Religions of Nations. And then rename this mini dlc to wealth of nations. Since the trade post and backing factions is more unique to merchant republics then giving production and manpower to non-merchant republics.


Paradox, you need someone who's job it is to plan your product releases to ensure quality control. You guys are nice and respond to your customers which is great for your image, but I'm sitll waiting to spend my money on DLC.
I didn't buy the American Dream and thank goodness because with your flip flopping it doesn't work.
You don't understand how game balance works in a complected strategy game. If you tested until game was fully balanced, it would never get released. Part of proper game balance require trying changes out on the large player base. That way you can get people talking about it. (Note, balance issues are not the same thing as bugs!)
 

DarkyErinyes

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You don't understand how game balance works in a complected strategy game. If you tested until game was fully balanced, it would never get released. Part of proper game balance require trying changes out on the large player base. That way you can get people talking about it. (Note, balance issues are not the same thing as bugs!)

I think no one really argues that - generally - changes are good because they'll keep the game fresh and make people figure out different ways to do things in the game. However it should be noted the "jumps" between balance decisions is somewhat odd. Sometimes ranging from one extreme to the other. I think that is what User4035 dislikes.

Personally I agree with his position because changing too much or too quickly can completely invalidate a lot of "balance" that existed before these adjustments and have negative side effects that become apparent. On the other hand small incremental changes ( lets say for example the bonus had gone down from 5% to 4% ) would mean that nothing - potentially - changes and the game grows very stale. I am more in favour of the second "smaller" changes as it would allow adjustments over several smaller patches in a matter of weeks to find a sweetspot that fits with newly added features ( with the DLCs ) or new mechanics.

Then again I am a software developer myself so maybe I am biased for these things ;)