100 piety would indeed be fundamentalism, I would say. Regular piety is 0. Agnostic-atheist/secular-minded is -100.
Europa Universalis IV Developer diary 8 - With God on Your Side?
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Are those the only 3 religions getting love? Are the other religions just going to be a copy paste with a name change?
Even then, the same should apply to Christians, no? Why would Christian fundamentalism be more compatible with science than Muslim fundamentalism?
There were many very religious Italians who supported the Renaissance. Universities in Europe grew largely from Church schools.
And the same applies to Muslims, the first universities in the world were Islamic (for example El Azhar in Egypt and Al Karaouine in Morocco). The Renaissance was pretty much just a transfer of knowledge from the Muslim states (and the Byzantine Empire) to Europe.
Care to elaborate? Because if it sounds like what I think it sounds like, I'll be one VERY happy EU IV player. I'll even forgive you for no T-34's
I like what you did with Orthodoxy. My question now is does the Patriarch have a cental seat, like the Pope, say in Constantinople? And if so what will happen when Constantinople is conquered by the Turks? Will it move to the next strongest Orthodox country?
We don't know if Paradox will model the major causes of the technological stagnation of the Muslim world. I'd imagine it would be pretty easy to represent the cultural apathy/isolation with the Monarch Power Pool.
Similarly, we don't know how major the effects of Piety will be. If the player needs only a little more Administrative or Military Power to get the relevant techs as a pious monarch, I think that will be a good implementation of the minor conflicts between religious and scientific thought in the various Islamic nations at the time.
You are right that it should be called Fundamentalism, though, and if the tech maluses turn out to be just another version of the Muslim tech group, I'll agree that the whole mechanism should be re-worked.
What method are you using to measure the level of piety: the amount of money poured into ḥadīth studies, the number of masjid maintained at the time, or perhaps something I'm less familiar with?
Dev Diary:
"For Europa Universalis IV, we have changed the effects of every religion. Some religions will keep their traditional bonuses, like morale boost for Shiite Islam and trade boosts for Reformed Christianity. But a lot of new effects have been introduced, as well."
As to whether other religions get something 'unique' like the three mechanics, the DD can be read either way, but I'm guessing at no (note that they have explicitly ruled out mechanics for Protestestism & Reformed). Arguably this is not such a bad thing, as all three mechanics leave me cold.
Well, gee, what happened when Constantinople WAS overrun by the Turks in 1453?
(The Patriarch stayed in Constantinople. But Russia got its own Patriarch in 1589. Other parts of the orthodox faith also have their own patriarchs at different times.)
Not at all, Moslems were seen as the conquering enemy and constant threat and Orthodox Catholics were just seen as odd, a nuisance but not an enemy let alone the, mostly they didnt care about or even think about it at all. But it was counted as schismatic not heretical, meaning part of the united christendom, but not the same. Great Alliances and actions were taken to protect against the turk, on the whole no one cared about the east, especially after Constantinople fell.
Paradox Mechanics represent this with the Religion Groups so CBs and relationship hits arent the same. Often Orthodox is excluded from the heretic CB and etcs as well as they dont make sense for it.
I know for a fact that Scandinavia crusaded against eastern orthodoxy during CKII's timeline around the Baltic, but in the times of EU I guess religious differences stopped being an acceptable cause for war amongst Christians.
I'd like to ask PI to rethink this piety=less technological progress thing. It doesn't make sense, nor is it logical. It's a system without justification in history, logics or plausibility. It's there to be there.
That depends on how much a religious society lets religion affect governing, I'd say.
Its never had anything to do with it. Throughout most of the era covered by the game most scientific progress came from the church as until modern agricultural advances came along it was only within the structure of the monasteries and universities that people had the time to invest in it and the unity of the church linking together all the libraries and university in europe was essential to the process as well as if theyd all been run in the interest of the monarch without the internationalism of the church then ignorance would reign unopposed.
Science is fuelled by free time and infrastructure, not secularism which is just a political position. And as a political position has in the past been used to attack science just as much as 'religion' or economic lobbying or any other political ideology or establishment has. You could even say Secularism is even worse for science, as under secularism is it the current state of the shifting majority that matters, so if a scientific truth goes against the current political climate or fashion, then it wont be suffered to continue much less supported. Point is, theres nothing in itself about Secularism that has anything to do with the support of scientific progress in a society.
As piety represents standing then it makes especially no sense, as your government having a high standing amonst your religion group would give the state backed academics more support from abroad which would naturally speed things up rather than hinder it. So the idea that making enemies of other moslem countries would get you great cooperation in academic fields from their establishment is kinda mental.
As from this DDs implications in game mechanics terms, low piety is effectively isolating yourself, you get it from making war on your fellow members of your international community, so the notion that isolation and contempt speed up technology? doesnt really make sense does it?
But that said, it might in terms of game balance when seen in the light of everything yet still unknown about the game.
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